TerriK INVESTIGATION, Part 3: Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statement; All Records Should Be Made Public According To Law.
Hawaii Department of Health Director Chiyome Fukino’s press release of July 27, 2009 was a public statement. The UIPA (Hawaii open records law) at 92F-12(a)(15) states:
§92F-12 Disclosure required. (a) Any other provision in this chapter to the contrary notwithstanding, each agency shall make available for public inspection and duplication during regular business hours:
(15) Information collected and maintained for the purpose of making information available to the general public;
Fukino’s July 27th press release stated:
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
There were two very important pieces of information made available to the public in the above statement:
- “…Obama was born in Hawaii…”
- “…Obama…is a natural-born American citizen…”
It cannot be disputed that this information was made available to the public. Therefore, under 92F-12(a)(15), all “Information collected and maintained for the purpose of making” the July 27th statement available to the public must be disclosed.
TerriK locked onto 92F-12(a)(15) and applied it to the July 27th press release by requesting all relevant records thereto. It was a very intelligent and savvy analysis, especially for a lay person. I tend to believe the application of this provision was overlooked by Hawaii officials and this will be the game changer leading to full disclosure.
Everything specifically listed in section 92F-12 is required by law to be made public. There is no discretion involved. Furthermore, no other provision of the UIPA may work as an exception to the mandatory disclosure mandated by 92F-12. Therefore, none of the exceptions listed in 92F-13 to the UIPA’s general rule of disclosure are applicable.
The only exceptions to mandatory disclosure of records listed in 92F-12(a)(15) are confidentiality laws listed in other chapters of the Hawaii Revised Statutes. This would specifically include Haw. Rev.Stat. 338-18 which makes vital records maintained by the DoH confidential.
As to Fukino’s July 27th press release, 92F-12(a)(15) and 338-18 may be in conflict as to disclosure of Obama’s vital records. The resolution of this potential conflict will be the subject matter of Part 4 of this report where we will comprehensively analyze whether vital records viewed by Fukino in making her July 27th statement must be disclosed.
I will tell you in advance that when such a conflict exists, the law requires that authorities give effect to both provisions where possible as “repeal by implication is disfavored”. OIP OP. Ltr. No. 00-02 citing Mahiai c. Suwa 69 Haw. 349, 356-57 (1987). My conclusion stated in advance of Part 4 is that those vital records must be disclosed.
That being said, this section of the report will be limited to issue of which records must be disclosed by the DoH, the Hawaii Attorney General, and any other official – state or federal – pertaining to the definition of the term “natural-born American citizen” as used by Fukino in her July 27th, 2009 press release.
NEW UIPA REQUESTS
Unfortunately, TerriK’s requests for records on this issue were very broad. This doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have yielded some disclosure. But the DoH seized on the broadness and issued a very confusing response which did not exactly conform to the OIP administrative rules.
Therefore, I have begun the process of making very specific UIPA requests on my own behalf for the records discussed. Other researchers I am in touch with are doing the same. Below is comprehensive legal analysis which strongly indicates full disclosure must be provided.
HAWAII ATTORNEY GENERAL MARK BENNETT APPROVED FUKINO’S JULY 27th PRESS RELEASE.
Justin Riggs sent the following email to DoH Communications Director Janice Okubo on July 29, 2009:
From: Justin Riggs [email address redacted]
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:03 PM
To: …janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov, [redacted other recipient]
…Ms. Okubo,
The reason that I am contacting your organizations is that you are, as far as I can tell from my research, the only two groups that have openly stated that President Obama is a natural born citizen (one of the Article II, Section I qualifications for being President). I would like to document how you came to that conclusion: i.e. what the criteria is for your organization, what evidence the candidate provides, etc.
I thank you for your time, and look forward to receiving a response in the near future.
Sincerely,
Justin W. Riggs
Janice Okubo responded later that day:
From: Okubo, Janice S.. <janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov>
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM
To: Justin Riggs [email address redacted]…
Aloha Justin,
The statement was reviewed and approved by our Attorney General Mark Bennett. I am unable to provide further comment.
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health…
So, we know that Hawaii Attorney General Mark Bennet “reviewed and approved” Fukino’s July 27th press release. Bennet may have prepared the entire press release or perhaps just the “natural-born” part. We don’t know. Okubo states that she is unable to provide further comment, so the rest is a mystery at this point. But we certainly have another public statement here which makes information available to the public.
The public is therefore entitled to all records maintained by Hawaii officials which pertain to this July 29th statement by Okubo. For example, any emails between Okubo and AG Bennett, between Okubo and Fukino, between Bennett and Fukino, Governor Lingle, etc. which guided Okubo’s statement to Justin Riggs must be disclosed along with memos, letters, transcripts, video and telephonic conference recordings and any other records maintained thereto.
The same goes for any records maintained documenting dialogue between Hawaii officials and federal officials as to this issue.
But more important is that all of the above records pertaining to Fukino’s July 27th press release must also be disclosed.
WHAT DEFINITION OF “NATURAL-BORN” CITIZEN DID FUKINO RELY UPON?
The statement, “…Obama…is a natural-born American citizen…”, contains both a factual determination as well as a legal definition. In order to decipher the factual determination made public by that conclusion, we must first know the legal definition of “natural-born America citizen” that Fukino determined Obama conformed to.
Without that legal definition, we can’t analyze the factual determination.
For example, if she used a definition which alleges anyone born on US soil is therefore a natural-born citizen, then the factual determination for this statement might only be concerned with records she viewed which led her to believe Obama was born in the US.
If, on the other hand, she used a definition which required that Obama was born in the US to parents who were citizens, then the factual determination involved with the “natural-born” part of her statement would have taken into account records she viewed which stated who his parents were.
Hawaii Attorney General Mark Bennett reviewed and approved the July 27th press release so we should assume that an Attorney General opinion letter exists. I personally issued a UIPA request for this letter to DoH Director Fukino on Sept. 28, 2009.
While the following analysis centers on disclosure of Attorney General opinions letters, it equally applies to all other government records kept by any state official or body covered by the UIPA – ie, emails, memos, photographs, minutes, etc. – which pertain to the July 27th press release.
ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION LETTERS CANNOT BE A SWORD AND A SHIELD.
Haw. Rev. Stat. 28-3 imposes an affirmative duty upon the Attorney General to document and make public all opinions he gives upon a question of law submitted by the head of an agency:
§28-3 Gives opinions. The attorney general shall, when requested, give opinions upon questions of law submitted by the governor, the legislature, or its members, or the head of any department. The attorney general shall file a copy of each opinion with the lieutenant governor, the public archives, the supreme court library, and the legislative reference bureau within three days of the date it is issued. Opinions on file with the lieutenant governor, the public archives, and the supreme court library shall be available for public inspection.
The word “shall” signifies an affirmative duty to document the opinion as well as make it public. This means that even if no Attorney General opinion letter currently exists, since a question of law was submitted to AG Bennet by the head of a state agency – DoH Director Fukino – the opinion received by her must be put in letter form and made available to the public.
If necessary, this may be accomplished via a writ of mandamus. However, I do believe such an opinion letter already exists along with accompanying emails and other records kept thereto. It would be highly suspicious for the DoH Director and the Attorney General to claim that no records whatsoever exist concerning Bennet’s review and approval of the July 27th press release.
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL LETTER MUST BE DISCLOSED.
In a case before the Circuit Court of the Second Circuit (State of Hawaii) – Akaku v. Bennett – involving current Attorney General Mark Bennett, the head of a state agency sought to keep an opinion letter prepared by AG Bennett from being disclosed:
Pursuant to HRS § 28-3, the Attorney General’s duty to disclose legal opinions in response to questions of law posed by any head of department is not discretionary. If the head of any department poses a question of law, the Attorney General’s response must be filed in accordance with HRS § 28-3 absent other considerations set out in HRS §§ 92F-13 and 14. [FN] 3.
Footnote 3 from that opinion states:
§ 28-3 provides that the “attorney general shall file a copy of each opinion.., within three days of the date it is issued” (emphasis added). Generally, the legislature uses the word “shall” to Indicate its intention to make the provision mandatory and not discretionary. State v. Shannon, 118 Haw. 15, 25 (2008).
NO ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE APPLIES.
The court went on to discuss that once the existence of the opinion letter and the conclusion of the letter are made public, no attorney client privilege applies:
Under the Hawaii Rules of Evidence (“HRE”), Rule 511, “[a] person upon whom these rules confer a privilege against disclosure waives the privilege if, while holder of the privilege, the person or the person’s predecessor voluntarily discloses or consents to disclosure of any significant part of the privileged matter. “… Commentary to HRE, Rule 511 further provides that “[a]ny intentional disclosure by the holder of the privilege defeats [the purpose of HRE 503] and eliminates the necessity for the privilege in that instance…
[I]t has been widely held that voluntary disclosure of the content of a privileged attorney communication constitutes waiver of the privilege as to all other such communications on the same subject.
This next part is very important since it discusses that a press release was the basis for a waiver of the attorney client privilege:
A sophisticated, well-counseled party who intentionally discloses an important part of an otherwise privileged communication acts in a manner that is thoroughly inconsistent with preserving the confidentiality of that communication. See Electro Scientific Indus. v. Gen. Scanning, Inc. , 175 F.R.D. 539, 543 (N.D. Cal, 1997) wherein it was held that where a party issues a “news release” disclosing that counsel advised him that the opposing party’s patents were invalid, waiver was effectuated because the party voluntarily disclosed an important and substantive part of what would have been a confidential attorney-client communication.
DoH Director Fukino is an M.D., and she certainly must be considered a “sophisticated, well-counseled party”. She disclosed an important part of the communication between herself and AG Bennet – the conclusion. And by virtue of an eloquent metaphor, the court provides illumination upon the policy which demands disclosure once such a conclusion is made public:
Defendant Reifurth disclosed to the public both the purpose for which he contacted the Attorney General– he wanted a legal opinion…and [he] also disclosed the essence of the legal opinion provided by the Attorney General… The disclosure of the legal opinion of the Attorney General amounted to a disclosure of a significant or important part of the attorney-client communication…
Defendant Reifurth has put two important statutory provisions in competition by using the attorney-client privilege as both a sword and a shield. (Emphasis added.)
Therefore, Fukino can’t use the Attorney General’s opinion as a sword to justify an official determination by her office that Obama is a “natural-born American citizen” while at the same time using the attorney client privilege as a shield to prevent public disclosure of AG Bennet’s opinion which is required by HRS 28-3.
As long as Attorney General Bennett’s opinion was recorded in a letter (or email, memo, note etc.), that record must be disclosed under 92F-12(15) as well as 92F-12(b)(2). The court in Akaku v. Bennett made reference to 92F-12(b)(2) in its holding:
The Uniform Information Practices Act (“UIPA”), directs agencies to disclose “[g]overnment records which, pursuant to federal law or a statute of this State, are expressly authorized to be disclosed to the person requesting access…” HRS § 92F-12(b)(2).
The holding in Akaku v. Bennett also contained the following findings of law:
In this instance, if the Attorney General could avoid publication of his response to a question of law by denominating the opinion as an “advise and counsel” letter, the mandatory disclosure provisions of HRS § 28-3 would be rendered meaningless…
Defendant Reifurth and the DCCA disclosed a significant part of the Attorney General Opinion thereby waiving the attorney-client privilege on communications on the same subject matter.
Since Attorney General opinion letters are expressly authorized to be made public by Haw. Rev. Stat. 28-3, it follows that 92F-12(b)(2) demands disclosure by law.
If Attorney General Bennett is given a question of law by DoH Director Fukino, his opinion in response thereto must be documented and made available to the public. If he has failed to make a record of this opinion, he will be compelled to do so and any resulting recording must be made available to the public.
NO SECRET LAW
We should also assume that DoH Director Fukino didn’t rely exclusively upon Attorney General Bennett’s opinion. She may have done her own research and she may have been influenced by other sources including officers of the federal government. 92F-12(a)(15) demands that all information she collected and maintained for purposes of making the July 27th press release be disclosed to the public. But there is another provision of 92F-12 which provides illumination on this issue, 92F-12(a)(2):
§92F-12 Disclosure required. (a) Any other provision in this chapter to the contrary notwithstanding, each agency shall make available for public inspection and duplication during regular business hours:
(2) Final opinions, including concurring and dissenting opinions, as well as orders made in the adjudication of cases, except to the extent protected by section 92F-13(1);
This is also known as the “law of the agency” which is specifically discussed in various OIP opinion letters and case law as having the purpose of preventing the issuance of “secret law”.
The most instructive analysis of 92F-12(a)(2) is provided by OIP Opinion Letter 90-40 which provides multiple statutory interpretations which are applicable here as well as to Part 4 of this report. I will quote extensively from this opinion letter:
The UIPA, the State’s new open records law, generally provides that “[a]ll government records are open to inspection and copying unless access is restricted or closed by law.” Haw. Rev. Stat. 92F-11(a) (Supp. 1989). In addition to this general rule of agency disclosure, in section 92F-12, Hawaii Revised Statutes, the Legislature enumerated a list of records, or categories of records, which must be made available for inspection as a matter of law. [FN 3.]
Footnote 3 includes an important provision we’ve seen before in Part 1 of this report:
3 As to the records, or categories or records set forth at section 92F-12, Hawaii Revised Statutes, the legislative history of the UIPA indicates that the Act’s exceptions to public access, “such as for personal privacy and for frustration of legitimate government function are inapplicable.” See S.Conf. Comm. Rep. No. 235, 14th Leg., 1988 Reg. Sess., Haw. S.J.689, 690 (1988); H.R. Conf. Comm. Rep. No. 112-88, 14th Leg., 1988 Reg. Sess., Haw. H.J. 817, 818 (1988). (Emphasis added.)
OIP Opinion Letter 90-40 then goes on to explain that the purpose of 92F-12(a)(2) – aka “the law of the agency” – is to prevent “secret law” from being issued:
Paragraphs (1) and (2) of section 92F-12(a), Hawaii Revised Statutes, were adopted in their entirety from section 2-101 of the Uniform Information Practices Code (“Model Code”) drafted by the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws. The UIPA’s legislative history directs those construing its provisions to consult the Model Code’s commentary, where appropriate, to guide the interpretation of similar UIPA provisions. See H.R. Stand. Comm. Rep. No. 2580, 14th Leg., 1988 Reg. Sess., Haw. H.J. 969, 972 (1988). The commentary to section 2-101 of the Model Code states:
Under this section, the “law of the agency” must be made available to the public. In other words, an agency may not maintain “secret law” relating to its own decisions and policies. This section is similar in general requirement to Sections (a)(1), (2) and (3) of the federal Freedom of Information Act 5 U.S.C. 552(a)(1), (2) and (3). . . . The affirmative disclosure responsibility extends to agency policies, rules and adjudicative determinations and procedures. (Emphasis added.)
OIP Opinion Letter 90-40 then goes on to discuss what specific actions taken by an agency fall under the no secret law of the agency provision of 92F-12(a)(2):
Additional guidance in determining the meaning of the term “order” for purposes of the UIPA, may be gleaned from the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws’ State Administrative Procedure Act of 1981 (“Model Act”). Section 1-102(5) of the Model Act defines the term “order” as:
[A]n agency action of particular applicability that determines the legal rights, duties, privileges, immunities, or other legal interests of one or more specific persons.
Model Act 1-102(5) (1981). (Emphasis added.)
Please note that an “order” is defined above as “an agency action that determines “the …legal interests of one or more specific persons.”
Applying that definition to Fukino’s July 27th statement, it is clear the press release was an agency action - issued on DoH letterhead directly from her office and bearing her title of DoH Director- which determined Obama’s “legal interest” concerning his (publicly disputed) eligibility to be President. The press release did this by stating that Fukino’s review of Obama’s “vital records” determined that he was a “natural-born American citizen”.
By taking official agency notice of Obama’s vital records and issuing an official opinion as to his Presidential eligibility, Fukino’s actions fall under “the law of the agency” pursuant to 92F-12(a)(2). And by refusing to inform the public concerning how she came to define the term “natural-born American citizen”, she is guilty of making “secret law”.
OIP Opinion Letter 90-40 provides further guidance on this issue:
In our opinion, the definition of the term “order” set forth in the Model Act provides a more practical and workable definition of this term. This definition clearly describes the action of an agency when acting in a quasi-judicial or adjudicatory capacity, by determining the legal rights, duties, privileges or other legal interests of specific persons. In our opinion, an agency may act in such a quasi-judicial, or adjudicatory capacity, in contexts other than”contested case” hearings under chapter 91, Hawaii Revised Statutes…
[W]e agree with the decision of the court in Sigler, that like section (a)(2) of the FOIA, by its terms, nothing would support a conclusion that section 92F-12(b)(2), Hawaii Revised Statutes, only applies to “adjudications pursuant to a formal hearing.” Sigler, 390 F. Supp. at 792.
Accordingly, DoH Director Fukino’s July 27th press release is covered by 92F-12(b)(2). The only remaining issue is whether the exception listed therein as to 92F-13(1) applies:
§92F-13 Government records; exceptions to general rule. This part shall not require disclosure of:
(1) Government records which, if disclosed, would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy;
Generally, no exceptions listed in other provisions of the UIPA (Chapter 92F of the Haw. Rev. Stat.) apply to 92F-12. But as to subsection 92F-12(b)(2), the above exception from 92F-13(1) is explicitly included. However, please take note that the 92F-13(1) exception does not apply to our analysis of required disclosure under 92F-12(a)(15).
Regardless, as I have limited discussion in this section of the TerriK Investigation report to disclosure issues attached to records pertaining only to the definition of “natural-born American citizen” incorporated by DoH Director Fukino (and approved by Attorney General Mark Bennett) in her July 27th press release, the privacy exception of 92F-13(1) does not apply.
There can be no privacy interest as to the definition of the term “natural-born American citizen”.
The very notion is absurd.
Leo C. Donofrio, Citizen Attorney http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com
October 1, 2009
Copyright 2009 Leo C. Donofrio

October 1, 2009 at 12:54 PM
I called Fukino’s office on 7-28-09 and asked what their definition of natural born citizen was, they referred me to their press officer, with whom I left a message, and I never received any response at all.
October 1, 2009 at 12:57 PM
Leo
Great work, checkmate, release the long form or they surely risk a suit charging AG and Fukino are breaking HI law. Man…
October 1, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Leo,
Great work, keep it up.
I remember when Factcheck.org posted the info on Obama’s BC they said they reviewed the information in Hawaii and confirmed everything, do you remember that? If they did, wouldn’t Obama have had to give authorization for them to review his documents and wouldn’t that be available for the public?
[ed. all of that is coming in the follow up reports. this was limited to the nbc statement.]
October 1, 2009 at 1:01 PM
[...] http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/terrik-investigation-part-3-hawaii-ag-mark-bennet... Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Leo Donofrio: Part 2Nyuu-seihin Part 06Videos: The Quest of Leo Donofrio [...]
October 1, 2009 at 1:03 PM
An on-topic comment I just made on Michelle Malkin’s site, linking to this post:
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/30/an-illustrated-guide-all-the-presidents-olympic-cronies/comment-page-1/#comment-815865
[ed. nice one.]
October 1, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Good entry and very clear. I see where this is leading. Thank you.
October 1, 2009 at 1:09 PM
So Mark Bennett needed to file with the lieutenant governor, the public archives, the supreme court library, and the legislative reference bureau a copy of his opinion letter to Fukino no later than July 30th.
Who is in charge of disclosing this letter to the public and are there any mandated deadlines they must meet for readily-available documents?
[ed. i put that in the report. this is the kind of report, y'all are going to have read a number of times...thank you. he was supposed to file it within three days after giving it. it's possible it's on file there and nobody looked. i doubt it though.
]
Would these other agencies disclose the opinion letter even if Fukino refuses?
Fukino’s exasperation at not being able to just do her job is such a red herring. She could have saved herself a LOT of time and trouble if she had just followed the law from the very beginning.
October 1, 2009 at 1:09 PM
Leo, I know where you are in mind and of spirit.
I offer this to you,
Mathew 7:7 Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Proverbs 2:1-5 My son, if you will receive my words And treasure my commandments within you, Make your ear attentive to wisdom, Incline your heart to understanding; For if you cry for discernment, Lift your voice for understanding; If you seek her as silver And search for her as for hidden treasures; Then you will discern the fear of the LORD And discover the knowledge of God.
Psalm 37:28 For the Lord delights in justice and forsakes not His saints; they are preserved forever, but the offspring of the wicked shall be cut off.
Incredible Leo, absolutely incredible.
October 1, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Leo, you have the spotlight. Shine, the light of truth on this issue!
Anything we can do to help?
http://www.dixhistory.com/
[ed. post it far and wide. if you guys work as hard reposting all of this as I have in preparing it, the chances of it having a proper impact grow exponentially.]
October 1, 2009 at 1:12 PM
When can we expect the documents/records/opinions to be released?
[ed. all the uipa requests must be responded to by 10 business days, and if no response then we can ask for OIP opinion letters and/or appeals... not sure how long those would take. We don't have to wait for them though, we can go straight to the judiciary for an expedited calendar. Hopefully, we are going to see a release of records before that. Anything going to trial under the UIPA shouldn't take more than a few months... I'm just guessing, but 3 to 4 months at the most seems plausible. It helps alot if those of you reading this will apply PR pressure by reposting and keeping this story front and center. it's a team effort.]
October 1, 2009 at 1:13 PM
Good work, Leo my man!~! Dr. Fukino will end up being very sorry she ever “talked” to anyone about Mr. O’s particulars – and especially so with MissTickly and you.
Keep on them!! In the meantime, note that in Kerchner et al v. Obama et al that Plaintiff’s counsel has sent an Inquiry letter to Judge Simandle re the snail’s pace (or words to that effect) causing – at the very least – concern in the Plantiff’s ranks.
October 1, 2009 at 1:27 PM
Excellent and informative work. It will be interesting to see if in coming to her opinion Dr. Fukino had any input from the President’s administration. Attorney General Holder, Rahm Emmanuel or any others. The noose seems to be tightening. How long do you think before they are forced to respond to you and others before the matter is pushed to the next level?
Thank you for the hard work!!!
October 1, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Thank you for your comprehensive effort on behalf of the Citizens of the United States of America who feel we indeed have standing, but have been frustrated at every turn by a dictatorial judicial system and the political hacks who people it with their cronies!
[ed. there's no standing problems on this issue. standing is expressed and explicit for "any person".]
October 1, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Link to this post submitted as a tip to the Drudge Report.
October 1, 2009 at 1:50 PM
Correction to previous reply: Meant to say 92-F13(4) not 12.
[ed. It's expressly denied application against anything that is required to be disclosed by 92F-12 which by law nullifies any applicability of 92F-13... you really need to focus and read these reports again. I've done the work and of course I've analyzed the exceptions. I'm not asking for blind faith, I'm asking that people do their homework.]
October 1, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Leo,
In a previous post, Nellie commented:
“If the “natural-born” (hyphenated, meaning a [ed. womb] birth) or “American” instead of “US citizen”, etc fudging around is shown to be legal wiggling it will vindicate all who have said you can’t take the words of these officials at face value. It would show they are not acting in good faith – regardless of which party they’re in.”
[ed. this would NEVER be acknowledged so it's not even worth discussing any further.]
This is an interesting point. Grammatically, the use of a hyphen in her July press release in the phrase “natural-born American citizen” has a completely different meaning than the same phrase without the hyphen as it appears in the Constitution “natural born Citizen”.
Just thinking out loud but I wonder if Fukino or AG Bennett did this intentionally in yet another attempt at misdirection or obfuscation.
October 1, 2009 at 1:56 PM
A piece of advice for bloggers if you wish to post this “far and wide” as you know you will be Alinksy#5′ed by professional abusers, but one effective response I’ve come up with is simply to write, “Proof??” after their insults, they peter out quickly and look like the kooks THEY really are.
October 1, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Great work Leo, this will have them scrambling in Hawaii to be sure. I don’t know how they could possibly discard so many of their own laws and statutes, without creating further suspicion to an already sketchy pattern of behavior. I will post and link this blog far and wide.
Thank you for all your hard work on behalf of the American people. Look forward to the next installment.
October 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM
Well done, Leo and TerriK! Well done!
October 1, 2009 at 2:11 PM
Thomas: I’d heard “natural born” meant not by caesarean section as a JOKE I can’t believe anyone would actually …. well, never mind
October 1, 2009 at 2:14 PM
Two things: 1) Justin Riggs specifically requested clarity regarding clarity about BHO’s eligibility regarding Article II, Section I, and then “evidence” to support that determination.
The response she provide was vague and “buck-passing” at best, curt and indecisive at worst.
2. Is there any possibility–any–that you all may be provided all the information you request and then be given a “gag order?”
[ed. no.]
October 1, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Oops, don’t know how that name happend to be October2009 but it is supposed to be SissySue. Sorry. Maybe ’cause I applied for a WordPress blog by the 10/09 name, eh?
October 1, 2009 at 2:17 PM
Leo, do you think the Resolution submitted by MCCaskill/Leahy, and Leahy’s thoughts on what constitutes a “Natural Born Citizen” will have any bearing on the final outcome?
http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200804/041008c.html
[ed. I dont really know...but it has already raised the issue of why they were concerned with two citizen parents. somebody needs to ask them why they wnated two citizen parents... what was the policy behind that?]
October 1, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Leo,
excellent work, as always. Devils advocate for a minute:
Is the Fukino email to JRiggs considered a public statement even though he is a private citizen?
What is to prevent the AG et al later coming back and saying “Whoops, the hard drive that has the info u are looking for just crapped out and we have no recent backups”?
[ed. there's a trail to Justin. the email is not going away and I believe he wasn't the only person who got this response. furthermore, since it comes from a public official whose title is "Communications Director" and it's from an official DoH email...it's certainly "information made available to the public"... the hypos you cited will not happen.]
October 1, 2009 at 2:26 PM
There is a page on the AG’s website for publication of Attorney General Opinions, but only one shows for 2008,
http://www.courts.state.hi.us/page_server/Services/45129F475623E2E9EB4D2B50CB.html
Would it be at all helpful to email the AG directly and ask him?
[ed. go right ahead... please let us know what happens. he didn't get back to Justin's letter from about two months ago.]
October 1, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Masterful and devastating.
(Would love to be a fly on a wall in certain AG’s office in HI right now.)
October 1, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Great work, Leo. I tend to think that getting hold of an opinion letter from the Hawaii Attorney General that lays out their definition of “natural born citizen” and how Obama meets it might be even better than the original birth certificate (assuming it exists). We have never seen any official analysis of those two questions, and so much could spin from there if we had one.
A question regarding reposting: exactly how “far and wide” do you want this to go? I ask this because I enjoy “Trusted User” status at a number of liberal sites such as Daily Kos, which would allow me to post a diary that would probably generate a fair amount of attention. But, and it’s a big “but”, the price of doing so will likely be a flood of negative attention coming to this site, that might result in the kind of hacking attacks that Orly Taitz has experienced on her site.
[ed. I dont see why anyone should be upset that researchers are asking for the records relied upon by Fukino in defining nbc when all of the law in Hawaii makes those records available...if they ban you, then they will just make themselves look like they are afraid of the law...]
October 1, 2009 at 2:30 PM
Your live over at Newsvine, I need people to comment.
http://bdimainman.newsvine.com/_news/2009/10/01/3339295-investigation-into-hawaiin-cover-up-of-obama
October 1, 2009 at 2:48 PM
It’s soooo dang exciting I’m going to have to go buy some smokes.
I have been spreading this far and wide.I wonder if I should post this on Tx. AG’s facebook page….give him something to ponder on. There were 30 or so that filed jbjd’s letter of complaint.This will remind him that we like to see our laws obeyed at the state level even if they ignore the Supreme law..eh?
This looks air tight but what about some of that fearmongering earlier on about the ADULT ADOPTION/SEALED RECORDS issue and the tribe in Montana.Will this possibility block only part of the info needed or will this current finding in your report demand compliance even if the records are SEALED?
Bless Ya Leo….
[ed. the definition of nbc can't be sealed...that would be "secret law".]
October 1, 2009 at 2:57 PM
I’ve hit drudge up twice in the last hour.
Drive them nuts with it.
October 1, 2009 at 2:59 PM
Can someone post to the Enquire or give me a link to it?
Send it to all the MSM oulets even though we know they will sit on it.
October 1, 2009 at 3:07 PM
That made me smile after each conclusion…
“No sword and shield!”
“No secret Law!”
I’d love to be a fly on Fukino’s or Bennet’s office wall.
Great work, Leo!
(Although I am merely a shadow of your own achievements, I have very similar interests to you: played competitive chess (peaked at only 1850 rating though)
[ed. You made A player status...awesome. I hit A player for the first time this year. Currently I have a 5 game streak against players rated over 2000 with no losses including a 2100 and a master (2217) at the NJ state Championship where i scalped four of them in a row... all draws.]
, played a lot of tournament poker (maximum win is only $4500 though), and always wished I went to Law school! (electrical engineer by education. Seems such a small world….)
October 1, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Leo,
It’s funny how government scandals always boil down to the same old question “Who Knew what and when did they know it”?
October 1, 2009 at 3:13 PM
And one more thing, I would REALLY dislike you as an opponent in Texas hold ‘em. You’ve got a keen eye for ambiguous emotional traits and statements. And so does TerriK.
October 1, 2009 at 3:13 PM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/contact/
Sent below.
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/
TerriK INVESTIGATION, Part 3: Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statement; All Records Should Be Made Public According To Law.
October 1, 2009 at 3:16 PM
Here is a Twitter tweet:
TerriK INVESTIGATION, Part 3: Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statement– http://bit.ly/sl8pW
October 1, 2009 at 3:19 PM
I have just one question, respond if you can.
What in the world could they be hiding that would justify all the laws they have already broken to conceal this stuff? Seriously, they have to be concealing something huge to risk all this! No rational state representative or appointed person would risk all this to conceal embarrassing information. The ‘informed’ public, because of you, must already know that he fails to make requirements because of his dual citizenship.
[ed. The public is hypnotized by the BC...honestly, when all is said and done, I think we'll find that he was born in Hawaii...when that happens, you will see a stampede of attention to the British birth issue and I think that stampede is what they have been trying to hide from.]
October 1, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Leo,
This is fascinating. I’m not a lawyer, so I can’t speak to the quality of your work, but as a lay person, I can say that you make a compelling and logical argument.
I think it’s far too early to be celebrating at this point in the game, but there is a feeling in our camp that momentum has shifted in our favor for the moment. Now if we can grasp the opportunity we’ve been presented and move forward boldly, perhaps we can seize the advantage and procure the information we have a right to access. It will be interesting to see how things play out.
I’ll be looking forward to Part 4.
October 1, 2009 at 3:23 PM
bho boo, it sounds to me like you’ve been waiting more than 10 business days to hear the answer to your question. I suppose it doesn’t count as a document request though, huh?
I e-mailed Mark Bennett’s office first to ask for a direct e-mail addy for him, since their website was being “reorganized” and could be out of order indefinitely. This was shortly after Fukino’s July 27 statement. I heard back immediately regarding the e-mail addy. So I e-mailed him to ask him to insure that the communications leading up to the statement and also leading up to the procedural changes regarding birth records would be saved. I also asked whether Obama had authorized Fukino’s statement, or why the laws Fukino cited all along suddenly changed.
I’ve never heard back. I should have asked for the documents. I suppose answers aren’t required by law but documents are. Now we know.
October 1, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Do all these statues you have listed, apply to Hi public school records ?
October 1, 2009 at 3:37 PM
just throwing this out there for a little stress relief… I wonder who will play you in the movie… Nicholas Cage?, Joe Pantoliano?… a brilliant unknown?… or maybe YOU???
October 1, 2009 at 3:40 PM
when ya get there…
find out which law gave Fukino the authority to invade obummers privacy and disclose facts that could only be obtained by disclosure of information contained in his “vital records”….seems like whats good for the goose works for ducks most of the time, no?
October 1, 2009 at 3:41 PM
Rock and Roll Baby, er Leo and TerriK.
October 1, 2009 at 3:42 PM
This may be nothing but…
I like to read the discussion and history pages on wikipedia and I found something very interesting in the Natural born citizen of the United Statespage:
“Natural-born citizen redirects here, but there is no explanation or definition on what a natural-born citizen actually is. There are all these paragraphs on becoming the President of the United States, which is nice, but what the hell is a NBC? — 李博杰 | —Talk contribs email 11:53, 27 September 2009 (UTC)”
Notice the hyphen? Notice the date of the comment?
October 1, 2009 at 3:43 PM
My poker chips are stacked up and ALL bets are for Leo & TerriK!
I just luv how this is unfolding and I will get it linked soon.
BTW, WND picked up on my letter from Sen. Johnson, however as usual they picked it apart and left off any mention to the real meaning of NBC and the historical facts. But what the hay, its coverage and the sooner we get the birth cert issue resolved, the sooner we can bulldoze them with the real constitutional injustice served upon the American people.
October 1, 2009 at 3:48 PM
http://hawaii.gov/lrb/par/pub/foi.pdf
From the Hawaii Legislative Reference Bureau…a guide to using the FOIA for the public.
October 1, 2009 at 3:49 PM
Great Job !
October 1, 2009 at 4:01 PM
A Comcast forum News and Current Events thread with a link to this report and the comment, “It appears that a cover-up bigger than Watergate is currently underway in Hawaii in order to protect the man currently acting as President.” was immediately locked. I have contacted the moderator who locked it asking for the specific rule (s)he believes the thread violated. They so blatantly blackout any discussion of eligibility there. I have never seen them deal with any other topic in this way.
October 1, 2009 at 4:03 PM
[...] TerriK INVESTIGATION, Part 3: Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statem… naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/terrik-investigation-part-3-hawaii-ag-mark-bennett-approved-fukinos-natural-born-citizen-statement-all-records-should-be-made-public-according-to-law – view page – cached Hawaii Department of Health Director Chiyome Fukino’s press release of July 27, 2009 was a public statement. The UIPA (Hawaii open records law) at 92F-12(a)(15) states: — From the page [...]
October 1, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Hawaii Five Uh-Oh Part III…
Borrowing a quote from my favorite book that commenter “Bdaman” posted at Leo’s site:
Proverbs 2:1-5 ~ My son, if you will receive my words And treasure my commandments within you, Make your ear attentive to wisdom, Incline your hea…
October 1, 2009 at 4:16 PM
[...] HMT Says: October 1, 2009 at 1:12 pm [...]
October 1, 2009 at 4:18 PM
I posted it on DailyPaul.
October 1, 2009 at 4:18 PM
Leo,
I’m a member of Smart Girl Politics (http://www.smartgirlpolitics.ning.com). They have been key participants in tea party protests across the nation, and they work closely with Michelle Malkin. They have over 12,000 members. They also have state chapters, so I have posted an invitation to the Hawaii group asking them to read your blog, and I suggested they might be able to offer you some legs on the ground if you still need anyone.
I hope some of them respond.
[ed. thank you.]
By the way, I REALLY hope you will write a book about this once you have succeeded. I’m confident they’ll fly off the bookshelves faster than they can be printed. It’s wonderful to watch the analytical precision of your mind unfold.
October 1, 2009 at 4:26 PM
§92F-12 Disclosure required.
(a) … each agency shall make available for public inspection…
(2) … orders made in the adjudication of cases
OIP 90-40 – … the definition of the term “order” … clearly describes the action of an agency when acting in a quasi-judicial or adjudicatory capacity, by determining the legal rights, duties, privileges or other legal interests of specific persons…
Leo, I’m trying to finely parse the legal and opinion text on the “No Secret Law” topic to see if it supports your conclusion. Stripping the words down to their bare essentials I get the following:
“each agency shall make available for public inspection the action of an agency when acting in a quasi-judicial or adjudicatory capacity”
This says that the agency has to disclose its actions, because they were of an adjudicatory nature. I agree with your conclusion – “By taking official agency notice of Obama’s vital records and issuing an official opinion as to his Presidential eligibility, Fukino’s actions fall under “the law of the agency” pursuant to 92F-12(a)(2). And by refusing to inform the public concerning how she came to define the term “natural-born American citizen”, she is guilty of making “secret law”.
The DoH must disclose it’s actions and make visible how they adjudicated the “natural-born American citizen” status of Barack Obama. It may be a little bit vague as to what exact materials must be released to fulfill this requirement, but certainly the AG opinion and the supporting evidence and legal foundation it relied upon must be included.
[ed. there's also this from my report:
October 1, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Dear Leo and Terri K,
I have read your wonderful work, and tonight I will sleep well. I cannot thank you enough, and yes there is still lots yet to do. I will be spreading this as far and wide as I can.
Most Appreciative,
Robare
October 1, 2009 at 4:44 PM
McAfee site advisor will not let me onto your site from ny computer. I could still get on from my iPhone.
October 1, 2009 at 4:50 PM
Man, they’re gonna wish they never came up with that nifty new open records law! I guess they did that back when they believed in democracy – you know, the good old days! Well, Leo is going to have us singing “THESE are the good old days!” The rest of that Carly Simon song applies here, too:
“Anticipation.
Anticipa-aa-tion
Is makin’ me wait…
It’s keepin’ me waa-aa-aa-aa-aa-tin’”
Actually, these articles are coming pretty hard and fast. You’re doing a wonderful job, Leo, and we’re lucky to have you on the(ir) case!
October 1, 2009 at 4:54 PM
The laws that the good people of Hawaii established for transparency in government were created for such a time as this! And you, Leo and TerriK, have been prepared through your particular gifts and hard earned skills for such a time as this, too.
We appreciate the hard work and the endless hours you are investing.
October 1, 2009 at 5:16 PM
bho boo,
You are so right about the name calling. They can be brutal. You just have to put your Kevlar skin on and move on. I really think these are paid posters because every time I post the ‘dualer’ position the are all over me (in a matter of minutes) with Wong Kim Ark.
[ed. wong kim ark is in our favor...it indicates that a native born son of alien is a citizen but not natural born. the language of the case is very good for our position. just tell them you love Wong Kim Ark and you agree with Justice Gray that the person is not nbc.]
Then they get nasty. The funny thing about Alynsky though, is it seems to work on them more than me. I still have yet to receive an answer to this simple question. How can one be a ‘natural born subject’ of the UK AND a ‘natural born citizen’ of the US?
I think most people who read blogs know about the NBC issue. In my opinion it is time to talk to your friends, relatives and co-workers to inform the un-informed. How about some viral e-mails?
October 1, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Update regarding an open case against Obama.
A “Letter of Inquiry” from Atty Apuzzo was sent to federal court Judge Simandle as to what is going on with the continued delays in making a decision.
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/10/letter-of-inquiry-by-atty-apuzzo.html
U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice Marshall is speaking to the Judges from the grave as to what they must do but they seem to be hiding under their desks instead of doing their duty and their oath to support and defend the Constitution of the U.S.A.
http://www.thebirthers.org/
My additional words on this delaying and stalling by the courts at:
http://countryfirst.bravehost.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=5131
M Publius Goat
http://countryfirst.bravehost.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=105
October 1, 2009 at 5:36 PM
Mr. Donofrio, you are amazing. Just sayin’
October 1, 2009 at 5:48 PM
my humble posting
http://starmaker.today.com/2009/10/01/no-more-dodging-for-hawaiian-officials-re-obamas-vital-records/
October 1, 2009 at 5:50 PM
Leo,
A fantastic accomplishment; very impressive legal analysis!
Bravo!
October 1, 2009 at 6:08 PM
Even though you have the e-mails that TerriK and Justin Riggs sent and the e-mail responses that TerriK and Justin Riggs received, would it be useful to file a request to get copies of the state’s records of those e-mails? I’d hate to have the DoH and Okubo deny that they ever sent those responses, especially the response to Justin’s 29 July request that included the statement by Okubo – “The statement was reviewed and approved by our Attorney General Mark Bennett..”
Maybe I’m being a little too paranoid.
October 1, 2009 at 6:09 PM
Right on Leo!
Bless you Terri for NOT giving up! In any way shape or form! You were RIGHT!
October 1, 2009 at 6:10 PM
It was definitely the McAfee program that would not let me onto your site. It caused a popup (stating that the site had virus’ or other problems) which locked the screen. I had to remove the McAfee site advisor portion of the mcAfee program to finally get past it.
October 1, 2009 at 6:11 PM
Just want to post a huge thank you – I have been following
the issue since the July of 2008. I truly believe you have backed them into a corner and they have no way out!
Just wondering why there are still only 19 comments – perhaps
there is too much traffic to handle it all? I hope it is not a more sinister reason.
October 1, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Great presentation…definitely requiring multiple reads to dissect a motherlode of info!!
Leo, just wanted to give you a heads up on how things work out here –i almost died when I found THIS discussion!
“Over at Hawaii Appellate Law Blog, I’ve got a post about the Hawaii Supreme Court wrestling with the word “shall” and whether and when it is mandatory or discretionary when it appears in a statute.”
http://hawaiiappellatelaw.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/statutory-interpretation-is-%E2%80%9Cshall%E2%80%9D-mandatory-or-discretionary/
[I]t is a well-established tenet of our statutory interpretation that the use of the word “shall” generally indicates the legislature’s intention to make a provision mandatory, as opposed to discretionary. See Gray v. Admin. Dir. of the Court, 84 Hawai`i 138, 150 n. 17, 931 P.2d 580, 592 n. 17 (1997) (observing that “[t]he word `shall’ is generally construed as mandatory in legal acceptation”); Voellmy v. Broderick, 91 Hawai`i 125, 129-30, 980 P.2d 999, 1003-04 (App.1999) (declaring that “[t]he word `shall’ `must be given a compulsory meaning . . . and is inconsistent with a concept of discretion’” (quoting Black’s Law Dictionary 1375 (6th ed.1990) (other citation omitted))); but see Narmore v. Kawafuchi, 112 Hawai`i 69, 83, 143 P.3d 1271, 1285 (2006) (noting that “[w]hile the word `shall’ is generally regarded as mandatory, in certain situations it may properly be given a directory meaning” (quoting Jack Endo Elec., Inc. v. Lear Siegler, Inc., 59 Haw. 612, 616-17, 585 P.2d 1265, 1269 (1978) (citation omitted)))…
Additionally, this court has interpreted the word “shall” as “directory” rather than mandatory only where a three part test has been satisfied.
…follow the link for further cases mentioned
October 1, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Dearest Leo,
If there is a national emergency and Obama can stay if office as long as… according to the Patriot Act, does all this still apply? I mean the Constitution and the NBC issue. I think this is what they are planning on.
October 1, 2009 at 6:25 PM
Leo,
You the MAN! Brilliant! You’ve got a “locked down” case vs. the obamabots in the Hawaii DOH! You and TerriK have them trapped between a rock and a hard place with nowhere to go but over a steep cliff.
Go at ‘em Leo, you’ve got them in the crosshairs at their 6 and about to flame their tails! We are praying for you and TerriK to be safe and strong in the palm of God’s hand.
October 1, 2009 at 6:33 PM
I’m going to send this link to Rush again. Come one everyone, let’s make a mass e-mailing to Rush on this subject. At least he has talked about some things. Time to spread this message!
October 1, 2009 at 6:36 PM
Located a reference on the usdoj site that references nbc. The doj page is http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/deny.tes.31.htm (Find Rawle on this page for reference to nbc).
The reference is “William Rawle: A View of the Constitution: Chapter IX” says written in 1829.
The website page is: http://www.constitution.org/wr/rawle_09.htm
Inside the 17th paragraph on above page is the following quote re nbc:
“Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity.”
This like something you may hear from bho in future.
October 1, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Dear Leo and TerriK,
I would like to take this opportunity to express a deep and heartfelt thanks to you both….I, vividly, remember the day that Dr. Fukino released her official proclamation in which she stated that Obama was a “natural-born American citizen.”…..It bothered me very much and it has always been my contention that she should be forced to eat those words, not to mention enlighten us all on what her definition of NBC is and then prove her assertion…..It seems that things are progressing nicely now thanks to both of you and others, behind the scene, that are lending their assistance….I’ll be glad when this phase is completed so that a first class quo warranto plaintiff may emerge and the real task at hand can begin….God bless America.
The emperor has no clothes and the cat has no skin…Meow!
October 1, 2009 at 7:13 PM
Leo,
Excellent!
Your legal investigation might bring down the entire HI government…
October 1, 2009 at 7:15 PM
Leo, have you read this case yet? It appears to be a federal court case re McCain and natural born citizenship. It also appears the conclusion is specious, but it is a federal case on NBC with regard to presidential election eligibility. Full disclosure: I cannot tell if the posted document is unaltered.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1494325/Robinson-v-Secretary-of-State-Debra-Bowen-et-al-John-McCain-Citizenship-Lawsuit
October 1, 2009 at 7:24 PM
October 1, 2009 at 7:37 PM
Leo,
I want to get this one point clear because I’ve read this post several times, and I’ve read §92F-12 Disclosure required several times, and I can’t wrap my mind around the grammar used in this sentence:
“(a) Any other provision in this chapter to the contrary notwithstanding…”
[ed. the "notwithstanding" clause has been held in multiple OIP reports and cases to mean that this provision controls "nevertheless" or "despite other provisions to the contrary". There is nothing to worry about on this, I can assure you. You don't thik I just skipped that do ya? I was all over the word "notwithstanding" for hours the other day.]
I want to make sure that I fully understand what they are saying. Reading all of §92F-12 in total and then going back to the beginning (a) portion quoted above, I read this to mean that:
“each agency shall make available for public inspection…etc”
any and all items contained within §92F-12 (1-16) except where prohibited by §92F-13.
Is this correct?
[ed. You've cited it wrong. It's 92F-12(a) (1-16). Only 92F-12(a)(2) and 92F-12(a)(3) must apply 92F-13 exceptions... no other parts of 92f-12 are effected.]
Then, I take your post to mean you are focused in on §92F-12 (15) which is not restricted by §92F-13.
Is this correct?
[ed. I'm focused on the other provisions mentioned in the report as well...]
October 1, 2009 at 7:40 PM
Amazed at y’alls hard work and discoveries!!!! A mind that never rest, thank God!
October 1, 2009 at 7:50 PM
Good work Leo. It appears that the AG and the DOH “have hoisted themselves on their own pitard”.
Go get them.
Steve
October 1, 2009 at 8:19 PM
I just wrote a comment about this site on Information Clearing House.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23605.htm
Karl Rove Blasts Obama for ‘Outsourcing Afghanistan’
“Re: Citizen’s comment.
There are many people standing up to “these criminals” The mainstream press just doesn’t report on it.
Check out how far Leo Donofrio has come in challenging Obama’s constitutional qualification to be president. LEO IS MAKING REAL PROGRESS.
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com
Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statement; All Records Should Be Made Public According To Law.
If Americans cannot enforce their constitution, we will be doomed. He, and many others, know that.”
October 1, 2009 at 8:20 PM
We’ll find out just how much international power and money is behind Obama with the decision for the 2016 Olympics. It will speak volumes of his actual power.
October 1, 2009 at 8:22 PM
Copy of an e-mail I just sent out to my entire list, Obama supporters too.
KEEP THIS GOING, FIRST READ THIS ARTICLE, READ I AND II IF YOU HAVEN’T ALREADY. THIS IS LEO DONOFRIO ,THE FIRST ATTORNEY TO HAVE A CASE CONFERENCED AT THE SUPREME COURT IN REFERENCE TO OBAMA’S ELIGIBILITY
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/terrik-investigation-part-3-hawaii-ag-mark-bennett-approved-fukinos-natural-born-citizen-statement-all-records-should-be-made-public-according-to-law/#comments
THEN GO HERE TO BRIEPART AND DRUDGE IS AT THE BOTTOM RIGHT, COPY AND PASTE THE LINK ABOVE AND SUBMIT TIP.
http://www.drudgereport.com/
http://www.breitbart.com/contact.php
FORWARD THE E-MAIL, BEFORE YOU DO COPY ALL ADDRESSES AND ***** DELETE******* USE BLIND COPY WHEN FORWARDING
THE KNOCK OUT PUNCH IS COMING, DONOFRIO WILL BE FILING SUIT IN HAWAII.
October 1, 2009 at 8:26 PM
Leo,
Realizing that Obama & Company consistently ignores the letter of the law, as they seem to be above it, I have this question.
Is there an end game here with muscle?
A final position where they have to deliver or go to jail like “we the people” would have to, if we ignored the law the way they do???
Listen to it for Free: WMP | RealPlayer
[ed. this is going to the Hawaii courts and we have standing... so we shall see.]
October 1, 2009 at 8:28 PM
re: McAfee
Looks like this site got blacklisted by McAfee…
Found on the PCWorld site:
“SiteAdvisor automatically tests sites for pop-ups, malware, and fraud. The system also fills in forms and monitors any spam received as a result. Site administrators like Gibson who feel that their sites shouldn’t be subject to a warning can alert the SiteAdvisor rating team at http://www.siteadvisor.com/feedback or send e-mail to complaints@siteadvisor.com. “
October 1, 2009 at 8:28 PM
Leo,
Being a non-attorney can you quickly explain why some words are surrounded by brackets in legal writings. For example… “[a]ny, [I]t, [g]overnment,” etc. What is the significance of this?
[ed. when you cut in on someone's quote in the middle of a passage and the first word you are starting your requote with from that passage is not capitalized, you put the first letter as a capital in brackets to signify it wasn't originally capitalized...]
Also, I get the sense you are all over this legally and exhausting all your resources in getting to the bottom of such simple (with obvious relevant public interest) information out of Hawaii regarding the biological creation of the Usurper.
Obama not only has unlimited financial resources through Soros and political groups, but now has the power of the Executive Branch and MSM at his disposal. I’m trying to be optimistic, but don’t believe Hawaii is going to just roll over on this one.
The stakes are high and the Usurper will not go down without a fight.
BTW, completely off topic, but can I ask if you are receiving any harassment or have seen any unmarked cars with men in black suits sitting outside your residence lately? I like your open/public policy for security reasons, but please watch your back.
October 1, 2009 at 8:33 PM
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_093009/content/01125114.member.html
Susan in Glendale Calif. (a mother with a law degree who speaks for many of us)
October 1, 2009 at 8:34 PM
[...] Mr. Donofrio posted on his web site that the Hawaiian Attorney General Mark Bennett approved Dr. Fukino’s July 27 press release, [...]
October 1, 2009 at 8:35 PM
Love you guys and pray for your success. I cannot recruit enough people to get concerned about this issue for the survival of this country.
October 1, 2009 at 8:37 PM
Thank you so much Leo for the clarification and correcting my cite where I left out out the (a) in §92F-12. I never doubted that you hadn’t fully exhausted their meaning of notwithstanding, I just wanted to ensure that I was reading §92F-12 correctly. Your answer confirmed exactly what I thought it to mean. Albeit I left out specifically stating that §92F-12(2) and (3) are the only exceptions applicable to §92F-13, but that was my understanding of what they were saying as well.
October 1, 2009 at 8:41 PM
Media list posted at obamacrimes. Happy emailing!
October 1, 2009 at 8:43 PM
Leo, I just sent this to the Globe magazine:
“Re: NJ Attorney Leo Donofrio’s ongoing investigation in apparent cover-up by Hawaii officials of Barack Obama’s birth documents. Leo is doing a fantastic job in his in-depth research and analysis on his site, which would make for a powerful expose’ by Globe: His site is: http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/
I hope you take this issue on. It is no exaggeration to say that this issue has huge national security ramifications. America has no other voice than that which news-mags like yours and citizen blogs publish. Thank you for applying your diligence and expertise to this matter.”
October 1, 2009 at 8:49 PM
[ed. this is going to the Hawaii courts and we have standing... so we shall see.]
I want to bake the worlds best biggest chocolate cake and print those words all over it!
I want a BILLBOARD with with those words on it… “And we have Standing!”
\m/(>.<)\m/ <('.'<) (>’.')> \\m// (-_-) \\m//
October 1, 2009 at 9:05 PM
[ed. The public is hypnotized by the BC...honestly, when all is said and done, I think we'll find that he was born in Hawaii...when that happens, you will see a stampede of attention to the British birth issue and I think that stampede is what they have been trying to hide from.]
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Soon, because of you and some other very bright people, we may have some answers. Follow the facts, no matter where they lead. America can survive the truth. Call it hunch, but I think it will get even more interesting soon.
October 1, 2009 at 9:05 PM
[ed. I dont really know...but it has already raised the issue of why they were concerned with two citizen parents. somebody needs to ask them why they wnated two citizen parents... what was the policy behind that?]
Leo, I have repeatedly requested this info from my senators to no avail. Do I need to file a formal FIOA?
I thought ALL documentation regarding committee hearing was to be in the public domain/
October 1, 2009 at 9:33 PM
[...] Worse Than Watergate By itooktheredpill It appears that a cover-up bigger than Watergate is currently underway in Hawaii in order to protect the man currently acting as President… Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statement; All Records Should Be Mad… [...]
October 1, 2009 at 9:35 PM
Morato at 8:28pm: “Obama not only has unlimited financial resources through Soros and political groups, but now has the power of the Executive Branch and MSM at his disposal.”
So, though Obama may have the power of the Executive Branch, how can federal resources be expended to for Obama’s personal defense against following the Constitution? Obama should be personally liable for any legal costs involved in defending his “natural born status” and eligibility issues, correct? Any legal costs incurred must be borne by Obama, especially since he will not release his birth certificate.
October 1, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Leo
When is the earliest date you could file suit?
If they dont respond in the aloted time then they probably won’t respond at all
[ed. next two weeks...]
October 1, 2009 at 9:37 PM
Leo,
Are you saying that only Hawaii has the UIPA? And Hawaii just happens to be the state Obama was born in, supposedly. Wow, there truly IS a Divine Hand in all of this!
Robare
[ed. most states have something like the UIPA, but Hawaii is where the info we need is.]
October 1, 2009 at 9:46 PM
I have sent this link to local media stations in OKC, CNN, FOX and Gretta Wire. I hope this helps.
October 1, 2009 at 9:47 PM
Taitz files surrply to Cardona’s defense of his own Motion to Dismiss, in the case Barnet vs. Obama
http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/taitz-files-surreply-in-response-to-cardona/
Argues that 9th amendment is solid grounds for Plaintiffs claims…
October 1, 2009 at 9:51 PM
WHAT DEFINITION OF “NATURAL-BORN” CITIZEN DID FUKINO RELY UPON?
I think you will find she relied on the one below:
For example, if she used a definition which alleges anyone born on US soil is therefore a natural-born citizen, then the factual determination for this statement might only be concerned with records she viewed which led her to believe Obama was born in the US.
The same respons I have just received from a one Loren Collins, to my post at Free Republic, entitled: “Is Obama a natural-born U.S. citizen?” to wit:
Thursday, October 01, 2009 9:43:45 AM · 8 of 51
LorenC to DavidFarrar
“Clearly, the writers of the U.S. Constitution had in mind something more than a citizen when they inserted the term “natural-born” citizen into Article I, Section II, Clause IV of the U.S. Constitution.”
You’re absolutely right that they did mean something more than “a citizen”, but you’re wrong as to what they had in mind. They meant to exclude NATURALIZED citizens. Your Arnold Schwarzeneggers, Jennifer Granholms, or Henry Kissingers. The modifier “natural born” serves to exclude persons who were not born U.S. citizens. The Constitution does not have any distinction between “natural born” and “native born,” as you said. To the contrary, the federal government has historically used the terms as synonyms.
[ed. if that were the case, then the definition of natural born citizen would be contained in the 14th amendment. The SCOTUS in both Minor and Wong Kim Ark have stated that the definition of nbc is not found in the Constitution. If the definition of nbc is not found in the Constitution then how can it be found in the 14th amendment? Furthermore, the majority in Wong Kim Ark indicated that the native born son of an alien - while being as much a citizen as any other citizen, is not natural born.]
The idea that “natural born” implies “two citizen parents” is an interpretation that simply is not supported by two plus centuries of American law and practice.
[ed. Two can play at that game: The idea that “natural born” implies “two citizen parents” is an interpretation that is simply supported by two plus centuries of American law and practice.]
Ask a Constitutional law professor. Consult a textbook.
[ed. And I say to you - ask a Constitutional law professor. Consult a textbook.]
If “two citizen parents” was an absolute requirement, the professors would know and the textbooks would include that in the definition.
[ed. If “two citizen parents” were not an absolute requirement, the professors would know and the textbooks would include that in the definition.]
What is your argument for why “two citizen parents” is the CORRECT interpretation of “natural born citizen” in the U.S. Constitution? What reliable legal sources support that view? Because, as I pointed out before, the overwhelming majority (by which I mean ‘almost universal majority’) of them do not support it.
[Ed. What is your argument for why “two citizen parents” is NOT the CORRECT interpretation of “natural born citizen” in the U.S. Constitution? What reliable legal sources support that view? Because, as I've pointed out before, the overwhelming majority (by which I mean ‘almost universal majority’) of them do support it.]
ex animo
davidfarrar
ex
October 1, 2009 at 9:51 PM
Remember this?
October 1, 2009 at 9:52 PM
I’m with you. Thanks for breaking it down. That’s ‘No Secret Law’ for the layman.
October 1, 2009 at 9:56 PM
This article list street addresses for the Dunham / Obama family in Hawaii. Its almost a timeline of Obama’s early years.
Obama’s Hawaii boyhood homes drawing gawkers
The Honolulu Advertiser, November 9, 2008
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081109/NEWS01/811090361/1001
October 1, 2009 at 9:57 PM
AG opinion 87-6 was interesting. I need go over it a few times as it may have useful info.
October 1, 2009 at 10:01 PM
And to think Senator Lindsey Graham said today ” The GOP need to call out the crazy birthers”.. I attempted to enlighten him and sent him an e-mail providing the background and link to the site. I explained that he should really be more informed on the subject. I told him he can do whatever he wishes with the “birthers”, I am not interested. I let him know I was a diligent dualer.
October 1, 2009 at 10:05 PM
I routed all but two of my posts through my home page to Leo’s.
I keep track on a hit counter plus I am a family history site and keep count on it apart from my main page hits.
My family history count as of now is Home page.
Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:27:07 Individual Elizabeth Harris accessed by 67.235.232.6. Total accesses = 174017
That is about normal for those pages. Now on my main home page I get about 20 hits per 24 hours. I started at about 41,000. I’ve had a 20 fold increase in less than 12 hours from my main page where I redirect to Leo’s page.
Leo if I have this figured right your count should be showing a bit of traffic.
I will get back at it in the morning but can’t move my fingers any longer tonight.
We appreciate your reply, be well and prosper.
texodix@gmail.com
http://dixhistory.com
http://www.GOOOH.com
October 1, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Link regarding AG opinion 87-6. The title is “Surname of Legitimated Child”. http://64.29.92.27/Old/htdocs/hsba/Legal_Research/Hawaii/Ag/op87-6.htm
October 1, 2009 at 10:09 PM
Posted at Free Republic:
TerriK Investigation Part3: Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statement
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2352716/posts
~~~~
Benjamin Franklin: “A republic, madam, if you can keep it.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmzldNFgD40
Fight on!!
October 1, 2009 at 10:25 PM
A follow up of LorenC on the definition of a “natural born American citizen”.
I can’t help but notice that one of those definitions of “natural born” in the Oxford English Dictionary specifically mentions “natural born American citizen.” To wit:
“Every one who first saw the light on the American soil was a natural-born American citizen.”
Born on U.S. soil makes you a natural born citizen. No parental citizenship requirement stated or implied.
*************************************************************
It’s funny she should mention that same term in her response at Free Republic now; don’t you thing?
ex animo
davidfarrar
October 1, 2009 at 10:25 PM
Leo,
Apologies, I found the committe hearing from April 30, 2008 and it comes with a warning, the law firm relied on British common law as if we are still ’subjects’ of some monarchy.
Leahy reads a legal analysis from a one Theodore Olson and a one Laurence Tribe of the law firm of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP, Washington, DC. They then go on to pass 511 out of committee.
In the analysis dated March 19, 2008, the lawyers refer to the following using direct quotes/phrases from their analysis:
Marsh v Chambers 463 US 783, 790-91 (1983); “and to the common law at the time of the founding”
Wong Kim Ark, 169 US 649, 655 (1898) “These sources all confirm that the phrase ‘natural born’ includes both birth abroad to parents who were citizens, and birth within the nation’s territory and allegiance.”
[ed. wong kim ark does not have such a quote...]
8 USC 1401(c); Act of May 24, 1934, Pub. L. No. 73-250, S1, 48 Stat. 797, 797. “Indeed the statute that the first Congress enacted on this subject not only established that such children are US citizens, but also expressly referredt ot hem as ‘natural born citizens’. Act of March 26, 1790, ch 3, S1, 1 Stat. 103, 104
” Senator McCain’s status as a “natural born” citizen by virtue of his birth to U.S. citizen parents is consistent with British statutes in force when the Constitution was drafted, which undoubtedly informed the Framers’ understanding of the Natural Born Citizen Clause. Those statutes provided, for example, that children born abroad to parents who were “natural-born Subjects” were also “natural-born Subjects ….. to all Intents, Constructions and Purposes whatsoever.” British Nationality Act, 1730, 4 Geol. 2, c. 21. The Framers substituted the word “citizen” for “subject” to reflect the shift from monarchy to democracy, but the Supreme Court has recognized that the two terms are otherwise identical. See, e.g., Hennessy v. Richardson Drug Co., 189 U.S. 25, 34-35 (1903). Thus, the First Congress’s statutory recognition that persons born abroad to U.S. citizens were “natural born” citizens fully conformed to British tradition, whereby citizenship conferred by statute based on the circumstances of one’s birth made one natural born.”
Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. at 655-66. “The Fourteenth Amendment expressly enshrines this connection between birthplace and citizenship in the text of the Constitution. U.S. Const. amend. XIV, §1 (“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. *.*.* ”) (emphases added). Premising “natural born” citizenship on the character of the territory in which one is born is rooted in the common-law understanding that persons born within the British kingdom and under loyalty to the British Crown–including most of the Framers themselves, who were born in the American colonies–were deemed “natural born subjects.” See, e.g., 1 William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England 354 (Legal Classics Library 1983) (1765) (“Natural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England, that is, within the ligeance, or as it is generally called, the allegiance of the king.*.*.* ”).”
“The U.S. Supreme Court has explained that, “[f]rom 1904 to 1979, the United States exercised sovereignty over the Panama Canal and the surrounding 10-mile-wide Panama Canal Zone.” 0′Connor v. United States, 479 U.S. 27, 28 (1986). See, e.g., The President–Government of the Canal Zone, 26 Op. Att’y Gen. 113, 116 (1907) (recognizing that the 1904 treaty between the United States and Panama “imposed upon the United States the obligations as well as the powers of a sovereign within the [Canal Zone]”); Panama Canal Act of 1912, Pub. L. No. 62-337, §1, 37 Stat. 560, 560
Historical practice confirms that birth on soil that is under the sovereignty of the United States, but not within a State, satisfies the Natural Born Citizen Clause. For example, Vice President Charles Curtis was born in the territory of Kansas on January 25, 1860–one year before Kansas became a State. Because the Twelfth Amendment requires that Vice Presidents possess the same qualifications as Presidents, the service of Vice President Curtis verifies that the phrase “natural born Citizen” includes birth outside of any State but within U.S. territory. Similarly, Senator Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona before its statehood, yet attained the Republican Party’s presidential nomination in 1964.
And Senator Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961–not long after its admission to the Union on August 21, 1959. We find it inconceivable that Senator Obama would have been ineligible for the Presidency had he been born two years earlier.
Senator McCain’s candidacy for the Presidency is consistent not only with the accepted meaning of “natural born Citizen,” but also with the Framers’ intentions when adopting that language. The Natural Born Citizen Clause was added to the Constitution shortly after John Jay sent a letter to George Washington expressing concern about “Foreigners” attaining the position of Commander in Chief. 3 Max Farrand, The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, at 61 (1911). It goes without saying that the Framers did not intend to exclude a person from the office of the President simply because he or she was born to U.S. citizens serving in the U.S. military outside of the continental United States; Senator McCain is certainly not the hypothetical “Foreigner” who John Jay and George Washington were concerned might usurp the role of Commander in Chief.
Therefore, based on the original meaning of the Constitution, the Framers’ intentions, and subsequent legal and historical precedent, Senator McCain’s birth to parents who were U.S. citizens, serving on a U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936, makes him a “natural born Citizen” within the meaning of the Constitution.
LAURENCE H. TRIBE.
THEODORE B. OLSON
So I guess this is a ‘Thank You for Playing” and your welcome for the backdoor sanitizing of Barack Obama, let’s just hope the public does not catch on.
I will make this the brunt of my next indepth article which will also be the detailed response to Sen. Johnson(which will also be sent to Thune & Herseth-Sandlin) for further clarification on his justification that being born abroad to a foreign father makes one a natural born citizen of the United States.
October 1, 2009 at 10:36 PM
Orly Taitz filed her fairly lengthy Sur-reply today with Judge Carter. It’s up on her website.
October 1, 2009 at 10:37 PM
[...] underway in Hawaii in order to protect the man currently acting as President… Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved Fukino’s Natural-Born Citizen Statement; All Records Should Be Mad… Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)JONATHAN TURLEY, CON LAW EXPERT GETS IT WRONGObama [...]
October 1, 2009 at 10:44 PM
I just submitted this website link to the Drudge Report.
Many different IP addresses posting the same link will get noticed. It is a team effort, something we all can do!
October 1, 2009 at 10:44 PM
Leo, I am confused on one case laww referenced. Any enlightenment for me?
What would the Marsh v Chambers,
[ed. I have idea what you refer to.]
a 1st Amendment issue have to do with citizenship? Is this some indirect connection to British common law the founders lived under before the Revolution? The opinion also refers to not relying too much on the founding fathers? Is he saying that congress is the one to interpret the intent of the founders?
Thx in advance to Leo or any of the readers here for any tips of direction to take when referencing to this in my reply to DC.
October 1, 2009 at 10:45 PM
OOPS..Marsh v Chambers
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=463&invol=783
[ed. please ask a more specific question.????]
October 1, 2009 at 10:51 PM
Part 3 was posted in its entirety on 10/1/09 by Leo Rugiens on the Huffington Post. No comments yet. I hope Leo is wearing body armour. He’s not in friendly territory.
http://thehuffingtonriposte.blogspot.com/2009/10/attorney-leo-donofrio-continues-his.html
October 1, 2009 at 11:49 PM
Trial Date Set For Obama Natural Born Lawsuit
Finally! Get ready to turn up the heat!
[ed. this is old news. The case has to withstand theDOJ motion to dismiss. There's a long way to go before this ever gets to a trial.]
October 2, 2009 at 12:03 AM
To David Farrar:
Concerning your partial post, as follows:
“You’re absolutely right that they did mean something more than “a citizen”, but you’re wrong as to what they had in mind. They meant to exclude NATURALIZED citizens. Your Arnold Schwarzeneggers, Jennifer Granholms, or Henry Kissingers. The modifier “natural born” serves to exclude persons who were not born U.S. citizens. The Constitution does not have any distinction between “natural born” and “native born,” as you said. To the contrary, the federal government has historically used the terms as synonyms.”
Naturalized citizens are foreign born citizens that have received United States citizenship through the 14th Amendment currently or by other procedure prior to the passage of the 14th Amendment that Leo explains in another section of this blog. Of course, naturalized citizens are excluded as natural born citizens.
As Leo has explained so well, natural born citizen status is a “circumstance of birth”. Both parents of the natural born citizen must be citizens of the United States before the birth of the child. Both parents can be “born citizens”. Or one or both can be naturalized, but the naturalization must occur before birth of the child. Otherwise, the child fails the natural born citizen test.
Historically, every parent of the United States Presidents have met the interlocking circumstance test with two notable exceptions. The exceptions are the fathers of President Chester Arthur and Barack Obama.
All this is detailed in another section of this blog.
October 2, 2009 at 12:08 AM
Leo & researchers,
1st, correction from above original post with case law. The reference to Wong Kim Ark was not a quote from the case opinions, it was a quote from the lawyers in regards to using WKA as a guide to common law practices as they believe the framers used. They concluded that the framers adopted the same definition for citizens as what was used for subjects under English common law.
[ British Nationality Act, 1730, 4 Geol. 2, c. 21. The Framers substituted the word “citizen” for “subject” to reflect the shift from monarchy to democracy, but the Supreme Court has recognized that the two terms are otherwise identical. See, e.g., Hennessy v. Richardson Drug Co., 189 U.S. 25, 34-35 (1903). Thus, the First Congress’s statutory recognition that persons born abroad to U.S. citizens were “natural born” citizens fully conformed to British tradition, whereby citizenship conferred by statute based on the circumstances of one’s birth made one natural born.” ]
I have now reread the opinions..ALL, including dessenting several times and here is what is sticking out to me since it is clear that the lawyers whom Leahy & Spector used are adament that US law is based on English common law. Here is the part of the dessenting opinion of Brennan & Marshall I am thinking that they are referring to:
[ Finally, and most importantly, the argument tendered by the Court is misguided because the Constitution is not a static document whose meaning on every detail is fixed for all time by the life experience of the Framers. We have recognized in a wide variety of constitutional contexts that the practices that were in place at the time any particular guarantee was enacted into the Constitution do not necessarily fix forever the meaning of that guarantee. 35 To be truly faithful to the Framers, "our use of the history of their time must limit itself to broad purposes, not specific practices." Abington School Dist. v. Schempp, 374 U.S., at 241 (BRENNAN, J., concurring). Our primary task must be to translate "the majestic generalities of the Bill of Rights, conceived as part of the pattern of liberal government in the eighteenth century, into concrete restraints on officials dealing with the [463 U.S. 783, 817] problems of the twentieth century . . . .” West Virginia Bd. of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624, 639 (1943). ]
From this one paragraph of the opinion, the only one that makes any sense to me as to having any relevance to SRes 511, which is the conclusion that the lawyers were referring to, is the reference to the constitution as a living doc. And possibly also that being able to be president is an inherent right?
Am I stretching here? I am not findiing anything in Burgers opinion that would even come close to backing the lawyers findings that the framers used English common law, quite the opposite. To me, Burger’s opinion read as if he was referring back to the declaration and the preamble to the constitution.
October 2, 2009 at 12:12 AM
Leo,
I have come to understand your belief that BHO was, in fact, born in Hawaii. It is certainly probable that HI state officials would not make such a direct statement unless it was true, or believed to be true.
On the other hand, all the other [obstructive] behavior by said officials and BHO himself point to the obvious conclusion that something [important] is not being disclosed.
Knowing that the Attorney General was employed to render a legal opinion to give cover to the pronouncement of NBC status is, I believe, also a red flag that one can reasonably draw an inference from.
How about this:
1) if the AG could point to any legal precedent that conferred NBC status to the son of a Kenyan subject, he certainly would have done so, as the good Doctor’s announcement could have included such an explanation without revealing any more information than had already been made public by BHO himself;
2) on the other hand, if the BC showed that BHO was the son of an American citizen, than it would be a slam-dunk to assert his NBC status based on the information on the BC — on the ORIGINAL as Dr. said;
3) per your previous post, the State of HI has effectively confirmed that someone has attempted to change the vital record(s) for BHO.
My assumption is that BHO is deliberately concealing all his various records — BC included — not because he isn’t a NBC, but precisely because he IS. Ironically, this knowledge would lead one to the exact same conclusion either way, i.e., he is not the person he pretends to be…
[ed. he admits to being British at birth through his father...therefore not nbc according to Wong Kim Ark.]
October 2, 2009 at 12:19 AM
[ed. The public is hypnotized by the BC...honestly, when all is said and done, I think we'll find that he was born in Hawaii...when that happens, you will see a stampede of attention to the British birth issue and I think that stampede is what they have been trying to hide from.]
Leo, I believe that the story begins with the vital records and ends who knows where. I will politely disagree with you on the BC issue. I actually believe that there is something there.
I’ll trust you on the stampede relative to the dualer issue but right now I can’t see how it happens.
Did you ever think in your lifetime that you would be reading a blog like a weekly series just to get a simple question answered? I feel sorry for you Leo that this has now become a full time job. I hope you will be repaid someway for all this effort.
[ed. I'm cool with that.most of you have full time jobs so I am happy to give my time.]
October 2, 2009 at 12:38 AM
I am thinking I need to specifically refer to this part of the dissenting opinion:
[ Finally, and most importantly, the argument tendered by the Court is misguided because the Constitution is not a static document whose meaning on every detail is fixed for all time by the life experience of the Framers. We have recognized in a wide variety of constitutional contexts that the practices that were in place at the time any particular guarantee was enacted into the Constitution do not necessarily fix forever the meaning of that guarantee. ]
While the constituion was intended to be adaptable to modern times, it was not written to be picked apart and reworded for individual circumstances.
The framers included gaurantees for a reason. Certain guarantees/qualifications that were meant to be ‘protections’ against foreign influences:
I can then refer back to Justice Story:
[ § 1473. It is indispensable, too, that the president should be a natural born citizen of the United States; or a citizen at the adoption of the constitution, and for fourteen years before his election. This permission of a naturalized citizen to become president is an exception from the great fundamental policy of all governments, to exclude foreign influence from their executive councils and duties. It was doubtless introduced (for it has now become by lapse of time merely nominal, and will soon become wholly extinct) out of respect to those distinguished revolutionary patriots, who were born in a foreign land, and yet had entitled themselves to high honors in their adopted country. A positive exclusion of them from the office would have been unjust to their merits, and painful to their sensibilities. But the general propriety of the exclusion of foreigners, in common cases, will scarcely be doubted by any sound statesman. It cuts off all chances for ambitious foreigners, who might otherwise be intriguing for the office; and interposes a barrier against those corrupt interferences of foreign governments in executive elections, which have inflicted the most serious evils upon the elective monarchies of Europe. Germany, Poland, and even the pontificate of Rome, are sad, but instructive examples of the enduring mischiefs arising from this source. ]
English common law was not used for defining US citizenship. I will refer back to the Collins Law Review.
[ Then finish with "clean up" by referring back to Leo's quotes in all the other case laws in regards to citizenship & statutes pertaining to the Canal Zone in which I will link heavily to this site. ]
Am I on the right track here?
[ed. march on.]
October 2, 2009 at 12:45 AM
I left this on Huffington Post
do not understand why Congressman Franks continues to make public statements like that.
The director of the Department of Health in Hawaii has stated that President Obama was born in Hawaii and that she has examined his vital records and she can verify that he is a natural born American citizen.
With that statement being approved by the Attorney General of Hawaii you would think that was enough to quiet things down. As we all know it has not had that effect. So the Department of Health in Hawaii may be releasing all of the documents and vital information that she used to make that statement and verification surrounding the Presidents place of birth and citizenship status. Hope that is alright.
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/terrik-investigation-part-3-hawaii-ag-mark-bennett-approved-fukinos-natural-born-citizen-statement-all-records-should-be-made-public-according-to-law/
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/28/trent-franks-obama-should_n_302337.html
October 2, 2009 at 1:05 AM
Potter: You mistook “The Huffington Riposte” (a conservative blog) for the “Huffington Post” (a liberal blog).
October 2, 2009 at 1:22 AM
[...] Donofrio Comment #2 By politicaldoc A Says: October 1, 2009 at 9:37 pm [...]
October 2, 2009 at 1:39 AM
The use of the term “natural-born American citizen”, is by careful design in my opinion, and it may have even been designed by Obama himself.
It was designed for an audience… for their emotions.
Observing the M.O.apparent with Obama.
He is an Alinskyite. He picks and freezes the target.
Then he let’s his minions go out and do battle for him.
He supplies the target and the ammunition(suggestions).
The first part of the term is probably a medical fact: “natural-born” (verses c-section), then comes the American part(Mom), followed by the citizen part.(born to American mom in Hawaii)
Suppose a young lady shows up at a hospital carrying a brand new infant and claims she gave birth at home. She is an American.
Presto! An American girl, had a natural-birth(born) in American baby which means baby is a citizen.(I intentionally omitted any mention of father in this scenario)
Medical Director of Health makes bizarre statement “born in Hawaii” and is a “natural-born American citizen”.
Like the COLB, his minions run with the suggested proof of the DOH statement as actual proof nbc is not in dispute.
Was it a legal status statement, or a medical status of method of delivery to an American mother?
Clearly it was designed to be taken as a legal statement for all to hear?
I bet the DOH tries to explain it as a medical statement.
[ed. That will NEVER happen.]
Now it seems like a calculated risk that backfired. The statement has now opened the door to actual examination of records per the law.
I think it was forced by you clearing the smoke and more people focusing in on the nbc including TerriK.
I have no doubt they follow every word and person on this blog.
If it looks like you are going to prevail- I hope you hire good security against some potential crazies out there!
This seems like it will finally reveal some truth.
October 2, 2009 at 1:56 AM
Just_Saying… “Obama should be personally liable for any legal costs involved in defending his “natural born status” and eligibility issues…”
I completely agree with you, but Obama is already using US attorneys in defending himself in open cases filed against him. I do not understand why Orly is allowing this (unless of course she is on their side). If this goes to court in Hawaii, I have no doubt that US attorneys will be there (if not already).
Don’t forget, Obama rose over $700m during the campaign and despite being a fraud; he is still very popular among his supporters. All I’m saying is that if this comes to a head in Hawaii… even if US attorneys are not present, deep pocket defense funds will come out of the woodwork to keep him in office.
It is also my opinion, based on Obama’s arrogant actions thus far, that he believes all US government property belongs to him now including our tax dollars. Have you seen the bills passed, bills proposed and frequent trips around the world he keeps scheduling?
I believe in Obama’s mind (despite all the public deception), he absolutely believes he is innocent until proven guilty.
That is where TerriK and Leo have entered stage right. Although the mountain is high, I’m optimistic that Obama will eventually exit stage left in disgrace.
October 2, 2009 at 1:58 AM
I think we may be miscontruing what the UIPA says in terms of disclosing information collected for making information public [92-12(15)]. The DOH does collect birth records for statistical use and reports, yet the law clearly limits access to any individual records through the tangible interest requirement. IOW, the DOH doesn’t collect birth records for the purpose of making private information public (at least not anymore).
[ed. I haven't addressed this issue yet, but it's a big part of the next report. I haven't provided my analysis to this issue. I am NOT misconstruing anything to do with 92-12(a)(15) - and you left the "(a)" out in your citation. My analysis in the last report was exclusively tailored to the "natural-born American citizen' statement by Fukino as approved by Bennett, more specifically the discovery of the AG opinion Letter and any accompanying records...]
In Fukino’s statements, even though she may have looked at certain vital records, these may not technically qualify as records that were ‘collected and maintained’ for the purpose of making information public. Contrast that with the DOH Web site listing different publications consisting of information that IS collected and maintained to be made public:
http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/publication.html
I think the idea behind the UIPA is that if you want the information that was collected and maintained for those kinds of public government records and reports, it has to be provided (within normal business hours, etc.), but not for records protected under the law. The UIPA makes a distinction between government records and personal records, so when they talk about balancing public interest with privacy, they are likely talking about government privacy and not personal privacy, as there are obviously several laws, limitations and exceptions that protect personal privacy.
The OIP’s reponse to Terri K’s request saying that the DOH was following the law appropriately in effect casts a pretty big umbrella over any records that would have the slightest claim of privacy and protection (like receipts and document requests). 92F-22(2) is one place where the UIPA talks about implied promises of confidentiality in regard to private records. This may be part of the rationale the state uses for protecting the receipts, etc. It just looks like the state has a lot of potential loopholes they can try to hide behind to prevent revealing any private information that may have been used to make Fukino’s public statements, such as the laws in 338-18 and the exception in 92F-13(4). The secret law argument looks good, but is it strong enough to force private records to be released??
One thing that might help counter the privacy protection of the original birth records is the fact that much of the information was already released by the state and published within days of Obama’s birth. Maybe the UIPA can be used to pressure the disclosure of those original records, because a stronger argument can be made that those documents were indeed specifically collected for the purpose of making information public. Besides, what information would be on any Obama birth record that hasn’t already been published by the state when he was born and published by Obama himself when he posted his alleged COLB at his Web site?? Disclosing the records should prove him right (if he’s honest).
The Index Data is the one other area that might be productive, since the law doesn’t have the same limits on what can be disclosed. If Index Data revealed that Obama’s records had been delayed, altered or amended, hopefully there would enough public curiosity and pressure to force Obama to release his own records and explain any discrepancies that might exist.
[ed. See today's report.]
One last suggestion: Somebody could directly ask the president or his campaign people if they still have and would provide the hard copy of the alleged COLB that was photographed by FactCheck. It should still be around. Hire a reputable document examiner to look at it and get a video crew to follow along to see if the document can be produced and is as advertised. If the document examiner can give a high degree of certainty that it’s legit, then it could effectively prove Obama’s birth claim without involving legal challenges to the state of Hawaii.
[ed. I believe we will be able to see that COLB up close and personal from the DoH files. all I can say right now is that you'll have to wait for the next legal analysis report which covers all of this. You don't have the ducks in order. Much more to come. Stay tuned.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:43 AM
constitutionallyspeaking…”OOPS..Marsh v Chambers”
From where I come from they call that “shooting from the hip.”
If you have something important to add to the debate, please do so with an explanation. What does this case have to do with the subject at hand?
October 2, 2009 at 3:52 AM
Why do people say that the term NBC is not defined in the Constittion?
Article II, Section I, Clause 5:
“No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a CITIZEN of the United States, AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION of this Constitution… ”
To me, this it what we call the “grandfather” clause. The Framers had to grandfathered themselves to become POTUS because they were not NBC… but only Citizens since they had dual citizenship at birth thru Britain.
[ed. That doesn't define nbc, it makes an exception for Citizens who are not nbc.]
October 2, 2009 at 4:59 AM
This may be a stupid question, but what if they say their reasoning for calling Obama “natural-born” is that he was delivered vaginally, not by c-section?
And what if they say they used the DNC document signed by Pelosi as proof Obama was “born in Hawaii” and a “natural-born” citizen, rather than looking at his vital records for the proof?
And what if a judge in one of the pending lawsuits against Obama orders his records sealed before you can get Hawaii to make them public?
And what if Obama declares martial law, suspending the Constitution, before Hawaii makes the records public?
Sorry….I guess I’m just pessimistic after all the failed attempts to bring him down.
[ed. That's never going to happen.]
October 2, 2009 at 5:21 AM
Leo,
The post by David Farrar (using Loren Collins post) is typical of the arguments I’ve received when posting the ‘dualer’ position. By their argument McCain was a ‘natural born citizen’ of Panama. How could the Senate have approved him if the definition was as simple as Loren says? Approved by a constitutional professor like Obama no less.
October 2, 2009 at 6:46 AM
Until SCOTUS Defines NBC
Was Obama born in Kenya? No!
His father was a Kenyan, though!
Even Fight the Smears says so.
Is he eligible to be President? I don’t know.
(And neither will anyone else) until SCOTUS defines NBC.
Obama released his COLB
As proof of his birth in Hawaii.
To determine his eligibility,
I guess we’ll have to wait and see
Until SCOTUS defines NBC.
Axlerod, Gibbs and Daily Kos
Use press releases and internet posts
To ridicule “birthers” as nuts and jokes.
But it’s all no more than keyboard strokes,
Until SCOTUS defines NBC.
Documents, transcripts, and records under seal.
What is it that he won’t reveal?
To transparency promised, I appeal.
Still, we won’t fully know the deal,
Until SCOTUS defines NBC.
What is an NBC you ask?
I challenge SCOTUS to that task.
A tin-foil hat or Usurper’s mask?
No decisions made without the facts
Or until SCOTUS defines NBC.
[ed. I don't think it's going to come down to SCOTUS, not at first anyway...it's got to happen in the DC District Court under Quo Warranto...]
October 2, 2009 at 6:48 AM
I’m so very glad you are working hard and finally getting to the bottom of the Obama deception. Everyone must continue to gather unimpeachable pertinent facts, then DEMAND Congress remove Obama from office asap. It’s time for a return to sanity and decency in this nation – and it will never happen under Obama and the Chicago “mob”, which owns his Marxist soul. I was employed by a “special” government intel agency for twenty eight years. Since Obama took office, 70% of agency personnel where I was employed have quit in utter disgust. The very recent senseless murder of yet another innocent child in Chicago is a prime example of the out of control behavior of the ignorant, rotten to the core “ACORN” type “entitled” characters which populate the inner city neighborhoods of this once proud country. Now that Obama is in office, certain groups truly believe they can ignore the law with impunity – just as arrogant, narcissistic Obama is doing. Once it is proven even Obama is not beyond the reach of the long arm of the law, the behavior of many common street criminals will suddenly change for the better, thus helping to make us all safer. I believe “UIPA” is the key to exposing and removing one of the most dangerous tyrants in modern history. Thank you, “TerriK”, and many thanks to Leo Donofrio and his staff for the fabulous work you folks are doing.
October 2, 2009 at 6:59 AM
Leo,
Just got a red-print warning from Windows Mail, comment John at 10-2-09 12:06, “Message suspicious and has blocked it.” It was placed in my junk mail folder.” This is the second time I’ve had a warning for a comment at your blog. Its ok if I open it? The obot’s hacks are circling looking for blood. Stay safe Leo, God bless you and TerriK for your great courage and your love for our great nation and the Constitution.
October 2, 2009 at 7:32 AM
It is no wonder that the British definition of “Natural Born American Citizen” would be different than our definition just as they have definitions of natural born Kenyan citizens (terminology may be different) which obviosly only connotes their relation to the Crown.
…..In no way would it have a bearing on a Constitutional provision in US Courts…..because it goes to the very crux of the separation between our forefathers and England.
…. But it does establish a nexus between BHO Sr and his decendants to the Crown.
October 2, 2009 at 7:32 AM
It is no wonder that the British definition of “Natural Born American Citizen” would be different than our definition just as they have definitions of natural born Kenyan citizens (terminology may be different) which obviosly only connotes their relation to the Crown.
…..In no way would it have a bearing on a Constitutional provision in US Courts…..because it goes to the very crux of the separation between our forefathers and England.
October 2, 2009 at 7:37 AM
Fukino needed nothing more than the information contained on Barack Obama’s COLB and the 14th to call Obama a natural-born American citizen.
ex animo
davidfarrar
[ed. well let her say that then if that is her position. Your name isn't Okubo, is it?
As you know, Fukino needed more than the information contained on Barack Obama's COLB and the 14th to call Obama a natural-born American citizen. ]
October 2, 2009 at 8:00 AM
Leo, below is my request and Janice Okubo’s response. I can forward it to you if you like.
From: [Redacted] Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:32
To: Chiyome.fukino@doh.hawaii.gov
Cc: janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov
Dear Dr. Fukino:
Please provide to me via email all of the index data pertaining to all of the vital records maintained by the State of Hawaii for Barack Hussein Obama.
Please provide to me via email all of the index data pertaining to all of the vital records maintained by the State of Hawaii that you relied upon to make your July 27, 2009 statement regarding Barack Hussein Obama.
I make these two request under HRS Section 338-18(d).
Respectfully submitted,
[Redacted]
from Okubo, Janice S.
to [Redacted]
cc “Fukino, Chiyome L.”
date Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 22:47
subject RE: Two Requests for Index Data
mailed-by doh.hawaii.gov
Aloha [Redacted],
In response to your request the following index data is being provided:
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
MARRIAGE INDEX
SORTED BY BRIDE
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
GROOM
OBAMA, BARACK HUSSEIN
BRIDE
DUNHAN, STANLEY ANN
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health
1250 Punchbowl Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
Phone: (808) 586-4442
Fax: (808) 586-4444
email: janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov
[ed. same thing we got.]
October 2, 2009 at 8:01 AM
[...] http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/terrik-investigation-part-3-hawaii-ag-mark-bennet... [...]
October 2, 2009 at 8:27 AM
Leo,
I am curious regarding the involvement of the Hawaiian Attorney General Mark Bennett into the statement by Dr. Chiyome Fukino that BHO is a NBC citizen. Are there any reports of Obama and/or his people having met with the HI AG during either his visit to Oahu last fall prior to his grandmother’s death or this past Spring for spreading her ashes in the Pacific Ocean?
October 2, 2009 at 8:42 AM
My kids when born were “foot printed” at the hospital to keep a lawful ID of the baby. A foot print is the same as a finger print. Does Obama hospital records show a birth certificate with his foot Print?
October 2, 2009 at 9:52 AM
Is the time coming to make a very easy to understand request that will allow the issue to be seen in simple and straight forwward light by the uneducated public and media? The line of action is clearly that of using the information and releases of the DOH themselves as instruments to get more details. This will get confusing to the lay people or the MSM.
Will there be a time to openly request a authentic, tracable short form certificate to have and hold in actual human hands by independent parties? That paper should match the infamous factcheck.org photo of the same type document except for the stamp on the back. Given that the White Spokesman has said “its on the internet” in a manner that indicates they fully support and even promote its display and propogation via the internet shows that the registar (BHO II) of the document has forfieted any expectation of privacy for that specific document and subsiquent releases from the DOH of the same document with the same information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF2XOWN0ns
At 0:55 mark – “Its on the internet”.
A simple matter that everyone should understand as this moves forward. You can not point to something “on the internet”, activity use is for your means and then hide behind the “its private and personal” curtain.
It feels the time is coming to make very open request for the SHORT FORM COLB. And if refused for privacy reasons use the Mr. Gibbs on words, along with those of Hawaiian officials and any other public officials who have said the short form COLB is “on the internet” to show how simply ludicrus it is claim privacy of a document who’s image on the internet is likely getting millions of hits a day.
Since an authenticed, tracable, known source of the short form still does not exist it seems premature to demand a long form. It feels like it is time to bring this part of the BC to a head and at least establish a single beach head of fully tracable, verified real documents.
October 2, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Leo:
I just checked your Google diagnostic page and it is clean…
[ed. snip - that's all we need to know....thanks]
October 2, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Leo et al -
I hope this will help to get the word out …
Earlier today I sent the message below to: Atlas Shrugs, David Limbaugh, Dick Morris, Drudge, American Thinker, Glenn Beck at Fox, Greta at Fox, Hannity at Fox, John S. Kass at Chicago Tribune, Les Kinsolving, Charles Krauthammer, Mark Levine, Michell Malkin, Mitchell Langbert, Open Records at Judicial Watch, Richard Cohen at Wash Post, Rush at eibnet, and Stanley Kurtz at National Review.
It would help if you would send similar to all of your contacts and many of those I listed also. It will likely help a lot if we can get attention to this issue to go as viral as possible.
Please send to a lot of folks! Just be sure to delete my and all other prior addressees before E-Mails are passed on to the next addressees. Thanks in advance, … Bob
Re: NJ Attorney Leo Donofrio’s ongoing investigation in an apparent cover-up by Hawaii officials of Barack Obama’s birth documents. Leo is doing a fantastic job in his in-depth research and analysis on his site, which would make for a powerful expose’ by you. His site is: http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/
I hope you take this issue on and do as many follow-ups as needed. It is no exaggeration to say that this issue has huge national security ramifications. America has no better voice than yours and those which many citizen blogs publish. Thank you for applying your diligence and expertise to this matter.
October 2, 2009 at 11:59 AM
This is what I emailed to AG Bennett: we’ll see
Dear Attorney General Bennett,
I’m trying to find a copy of a particular legal opinion, if it exists, regarding a July 27, 2009 public statement by Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, regarding President Obama’s place of birth and “natural born” citizen status. When contacted about this, Janice Okubo of the Communications office replied as such: “The statement was reviewed and approved by our Attorney General Mark Bennett. I am unable to provide further comment.”
However, I have been unable to find the Legal Opinion rendered for her to make that decision anywhere on your site. Could you please direct me to it? If no formal legal opinion was rendered by your office, could you then direct me to the “informal” opinion Ms. Okubo refers to, in other words the basis upon which you “reviewed and approved” her statements?
Thank you very much for your help.
[ed. keep us updated.]
October 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM
I personally doubt BO was born in Hawaii. If it is found he was actually born there, your case would be much harder to prove because most Americans are ignorant on the definition of NBC and it is easily distorted by the mumbo jumbo of laws on citizenship. But it is interesting that Ginsburg, the one who legislates from the Bench, said last week without facts that she considers someone born from US citizens in a foreign land as NBCs. She used the plural , it would be interested if she would alter her mindset if only parent was US citizen. That would be the key question.
October 2, 2009 at 12:07 PM
[...] the rest here: TerriK INVESTIGATION, Part 3: Hawaii AG Mark Bennett Approved … Share and [...]
October 2, 2009 at 12:08 PM
*only one parent was US citizen
edit above
October 2, 2009 at 12:16 PM
Baseball not only has maintained its position as the National Game of the United States, but also has become an International Game being played in more than 100 countries. The popularity of the game will grow only so long as its players, managers, coaches, umpires and administrative officers respect the discipline of its code of rules. –Official Rules:Forward
Dear Leo,
Thanks for your inspiring work. The above regarding baseball seems equally applicable to our Constitution. The code of rules is written in such a fashion as to avoid “interpretation”. There is a mechanism for changing the rules. Etc. Phrases like “home run” and ” foul ball” have definite meanings. I would be very surprised to learn that the expression “natural born citizen” was intended to be open to interpretation or that the framers and signers of the Constitution were in doubt as to what it meant. Etc. I am sure it was commonly understood–and the LAW OF NATIONS seems to me the logical choice of a source. But then I am not an historian!
The interpreting, spoil sports have just about ruined the game of being an American. At least the cheaters acknowledge the rules. I strongly favor a strict reading of the Constitution–not a strict interpretation. Post-modernism undermines intelligibility. Ultimately it leads to what the famous Austrian psychiatrist Viktor Frankl calls the “existential vacuum”. We have become a country of cowardly and weak men who have turned things over to the “weaker sex” who are now expected to take care of us!! And I don’t think the women are very happy with our performance. Anyway it takes nerve to do what you are doing, and I appreciate your efforts and those who are supporting you. Perhaps from this tiny seed of activity something large and important and valuable will arise.
Good luck,
Jack
October 2, 2009 at 1:10 PM
Is he really this brazen, daring folks to challenge him ? This
was prepared text.
At the Olympic presentation, he said … “including my father
from the African continent.”
Scroll to the 1:13 mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r84lkFwXenc
That’s some hubris.
October 2, 2009 at 1:25 PM
I found this on thebirthers site…It really helped me to feel confident about
who is qualified to be POTUS…
Since our federal common law starts with Vattel’s Law of Nations it is natural that we look there first to see if the meaning of a natural born citizen can be found that would satisfy the concerns of our Founding Fathers.
Lo and behold, we find in Book One, Chapter Nineteen the following,
§ 215. Children of citizens born in a foreign country.
It is asked whether the children born of citizens in a foreign country are citizens? The laws have decided this question in several countries, and their regulations must be followed.(59) By the law of nature alone, children follow the condition of their fathers, and enter into all their rights (§ 212); the place of birth produces no change in this particular, and cannot, of itself, furnish any reason for taking from a child what nature has given him; I say “of itself,” for, civil or political laws may, for particular reasons, ordain otherwise. But I suppose that the father has not entirely quitted his country in order to settle elsewhere. If he has fixed his abode in a foreign country, he is become a member of another society, at least as a perpetual inhabitant; and his children will be members of it also.
the whole article can be found at
http://thebirthers.org/misc/MakeThemNBCs.html
[ed. Nothing about natural born...just citizen. the partisans out there still cutting John McCain slack are doing more harm than they can imagine. McCain is more responsible for the usurpation than any other person.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:14 PM
Am I on the right track here?
[ed. march on.]
THANK YOU Leo
October 2, 2009 at 3:51 PM
Leo, if the Framers thought they were not NBC because of their dual citizensip at birth thru Britain, then Obama is not a NBC for the same reason. So that at least defines that a NBC cannot have dual citizenship at birth. Why else would they have to grandfather themselves to become POTUS?
[ed. that's pretty much the whole point.]
October 2, 2009 at 4:36 PM
Thank you Leo for all that you have done. This must be resolved. Maybe his defeat with the IOC is an omen!!
October 3, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Leo,
I want to send to you and to your readers this excellent article that is called “Constitutional Principles” that is written by Bill Turner.
Bill Turner
US Western Regional Coordinator
The Patriotic Resistance
http://www.resistnet.com
Twitter: Czarhunter
Blog: http://www.americanpatriotscommission.com
Senior Advisor: The American Patriot Commission
http://www.americanpatriotcommission.com
I joined ResistNet and became a member of http://www.resistnet.com months ago. I recommend American Citizens join this group of American Citizens who resist all of the crimes, evil, lies, and corruption that are happening in our USA now.
A lot of things are inspirational on earth. Bill Turner’s article gives to American citizens Constant Forever Inspiration to unite together to constantly uphold, support, obey, protect, preserve, and to defend the USA Constitution, and the USA from attacks from Foreign and Domestic Enemies and Usurpers who attack the United States Of America, the USA Constitution and the Rules Of Law.
ALL Americans and ALL people in ALL nations need to immediately REPENT and MUST REPENT of ALL sins against GOD, and return to and come back to GOD in faith & in trust of GOD ALMIGHTY THE ETERNAL FOREVER LIVING CREATOR – THE MOST HOLY TRINITY – THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT so Gods’ Forever Living Constant Truth, Virtues, Wisdom, Morality, Humility, Purity, and Holiness will lead American citizens:
http://www.thecypresstimes.com/article/Columnists/Bill_Turner/CONSTITUTIONAL_PRINCIPLES/24919#
October 14, 2009 at 2:27 PM
I lived in Hawaii from 1961 – 1983. My wife and two of our children were born in Hawaii at Kapiolani Hospital.
Our “Certificate of Live Birth” certificates from 1952, 1977, and 1979 don’t look any thing like Obama’s as they have much more information, including ”State of birth” for both mother and father, certifying signature, and registrar. However, it may be possible that that is due to the differences between an original long form and a shorter “request for copy” issued long after the fact.
Regardless, here are some interesting tidbits:
1. Obama’s certificate has number 151 1961-010641 on it. “151” is the file number, which all of our birth certificates also have. All of our certificates only have a two digit number for the year. Obama’s has a four digit year. I would guess that the last six numbers are sequential, assigned as babies are born. None of ours have a dash in between the year and sequential number, there is just a space. Examining other birth certificate from 1961 would confirm the assignment sequence and year labeling convention.
2. Our 1952 certificate has the race of father and mother on it. Our 1977 and 1979 ones have neither.
3. All three of ours have birthplace of both father and mother.
4. Putting Barak’s certificate number in with ours, along with the state’s population at the time yields:
Mar 12, 1952 #02858 my wife POP: about 500,000
June 6, 1961 #010641 Barak Obama POP, about 650,000
June 14, 1977 #007791 my daughter POP, about 900,000
August 7, 1979 #010725 my son POP, about 925,000
If the serial number is sequential, that was a LOT of babies born in 1961 by June 6th.
BTW, back in those days, there were four main private schools in Honolulu.
Damien H.S. An all-boys Catholic HS operated by the Christian Brothers of Ireland. I, and all the boys that got kicked out of public school, went here. The tuition is currently $9,175
St Louis. An all boys Catholic middle and HS school operated by the Brothers of Mary. This one was for the “good” Catholics. The HS tuition is currently $11,795
Punahou – for the upper class. Tuition is now $17,300
Iolani School – for the very rich. Tuition is now $23,800
Most people are unaware that in Hawaii the wages are lower and the cost of living is higher. Hawaii is typically #1 in states for two wage earner families. It is highly unlikely that Stanley Ann Dunham could have afforded sending her son to Punahou at the time and I doubt the “free ride from Punahoe” story as I don’t believe Punahoe did that back then.
[ed. thank you for the info.]
October 14, 2009 at 11:00 PM
[...] I have previously discussed, 28-3 requires that formal AG opinion letters be disclosed to the public. It is not a matter of [...]
October 17, 2009 at 3:07 AM
When I joined the United States Marine Corps and later the Nat’l Guard I had to show my original long form birth certificate. When I became a police officer I had to show a notarized copy of my original long form birth certificate. I didn’t point Army officials to some website with a jpeg image of what “appears ” to be a certification of live birth document. Which by the way, is NOT valid evidence in any court of law that I know of. Additionally, I didn’t hire Perkins Coie to fight release of said long form and I didn’t send DOJ lawyers to do the same thing. If every soldier has to provide the original bc then the Commander in Chief should follow the same rules. that is unless he has something to hide. Obama is hiding something.
October 31, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Quo Warranto — Let’s assume that a quo warranto action is undertaken in D. C. and the results are in the plaintiff favor. Because the plaintiff(s) have invalidated the results of an ellection and have shown that the person sitting and acting as the President is in fact not eligible to hold that office, then the U. S. Marshall or some other law enforcement agency would be required to arrest that person .
[ed. No. Nobody gets arrested. read the statute. it says that this is a civil action not criminal.]
Since congress did not act in its official capasity, they did not IMPEACH the faux president.
As I understand it, Only a legal sitting president can be impeached. The usuper is simply expelled.
Is that last sentence a true statement.
[ed. no. The election would be void. As if it never happened.]