DoH Reverses Course – Releases Index Data For President Obama, Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr; No Records For Maya Exist.
MEDIA UPDATE: I will be on The Liberty Pole with Ken Dunbar tonight
9PM -11 PM EST – Texas Broadcasting Network http://texasbroadcasting.net/
[UPDATED 2:29 PM 10.02.09 - see red UPDATE below.]
The Hawaii Department of Health has reversed course. They now admit that they do - in fact – make some vital records information available to the public. This admission reverses their prior response pattern indicating that “no information” could be released.
You will recall from Part 1 of my full report that previous official responses to UIPA requests were greeted with statements – issued by DoH Director Fukino and DoH Communications Director Okubo – which indicated that state law forbid “any information” about Hawaii vital records from being released. These rigid responses were issued despite the clear applicability of Haw. Rev. Stat. 338-18(d) which requires the mandatory release of some information from vital records on file with the DoH.
Just after I released that report, the Post and Email blog detailed that another researcher who requested “index data” had received the same improper denial of access to that index data. I blogged on that denial in my report entitled, “Hawaii DoH Official Janice Okubo Places her Thumb Directly In The Giants Eye.”
Behind the scenes, myself and two other members of my research team – KingsKid and Justin Riggs – have been issuing very specific UIPA requests. And last night KingsKid received a response to her UIPA request from DoH Communications Director Okubo which exhibits a complete reversal of policy.
KingsKid UIPA REQUEST ANSWERED BY OKUBO… AND MORE?
Last night, Janice Okubo responded to KingsKid with the following email:
Aloha..,
Index data referred to in HRS 338-18 from vital records in the State of Hawaii is available for inspection at the Department of Health’s Office of Health Status Monitoring at 1250 Punchbowl Street in Honolulu . The Director in accordance with 338-18 (d) has not authorized any other data to be made available to the public.
In response to your request the following index data is being provided:
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
MARRIAGE INDEX
SORTED BY BRIDE
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
GROOM
OBAMA, BARACK HUSSEIN
BRIDE
DUNHAN, STANLEY ANN
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health…
(Okubo used the “blue ink” to transmit the index data. And Stanley Ann’s last name is misspelled as “DUNHAN”. It should be “Dunham”. KingsKid is awaiting clarification.)
[UPDATE: 2:35 PM 10.02.09 KingsKid was informed by Okubo that the index file has the correct spelling "DUNHAM" and the typo was her mistake, it's spelled correctly in the file.]
This response certainly gives a plethora of new information. First and foremost, it tells us that a thumb is being removed from the giant’s eye. This is, as far as I know, the first time the DoH has responded to a request for information from President Obama’s vital records by releasing actual records as opposed to Fukino’s view of those records.
This is a significant change in policy caused by renewed public attention.
It also tells one where to view the actual index data with your own eyes, “…the Department of Health’s Office of Health Status Monitoring at 1250 Punchbowl Street in Honolulu.”
The index file also lists President Obama’s name as “Barack Hussein Obama II”.
BRIDE AND GROOM?
This information allows us to put the rumour to bed which claims that Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr. weren’t married. They were married in Hawaii. However…
KingsKid didn’t request index data for Stanley Ann or Barack, Sr.
I thought it was very odd that Okubo included the marriage index information in her response to KingsKid’s very specific request for President Obama’s index data. Specifically, I was confused as to why Okubo’s response would list “Bride” and “Groom” in Obama’s index file instead of “Mother” and “Father”.
Okubo’s response to KingsKid gives the impression that the names of Obama’s parents are included in that response – but it doesn’t have them listed as parents.
It has them listed only as bride and groom.
Knowing that the DoH has exhibited a penchant for misdirection, this raised a big red flag for me.
I asked KingsKid to write back to Okubo and have her clarify whether the index data made available to the public includes parentage or whether the information Okubo provided was from the index files of Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr. I also suggested that KingsKid query Okubo as to whether a divorce would appear in the index file.
Below is the follow up inquiry sent by KingsKid to Okubo at 10:07PM EST, last night (Oct. 1, 2009):
And here is Okubo’s response:
Aloha..,
I am sorry; I may have misunderstood your request. The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.
The Department of Health does not hold divorce records, they are with the Department of Judiciary.
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health
So now we know that the DoH doesn’t maintain divorce records. Those are maintained by the “Judiciary”.
Beyond that, I just don’t know what to make of this at all. I can’t see how Okubo could have “misunderstood” the request. KingsKid was very specific:
“…I am requesting all index data pertaining to the vital records of Mr. Barack H. Obama, Jr, Mr. Barack H. Obama, II, and/or Mr. Barry Soetoro or any other name used by that party.”
It’s clear that KingsKid was asking only for the President’s index data, not for the index data of Stanley Ann and/or Barack Sr. Okubo’s response offered up information from multiple index files. But nowhere in the request does it make reference to anyone but the President.
Either, Communications Director Okubo did misunderstand the request, or she was trying to give the impression that the President’s index data lists the names of Stanley Ann and Barack Sr. as his parents.
I am truly baffled. Since when does the DoH give more information than was requested. Are we going to be subjected to Seussian Hooplah such as – It depends what the meaning of “parents” is – ?
I have to believe the President’s vital records will show that SAD and BHO are his biological parents. But Okubo’s response to KingsKid, Fukino’s “natural-born” determination, and the refusal by the DoH to enlighten the public as to Attorney General Mark Bennet’s approval thereof forces the need for public inquiry to reach much further.
Also, Okubo’s response misspells Stanley Ann’s last name as “Dunahm” while the index data misspells Stanley Ann’s name as “Dunhan“. Researchers visiting the Office of Health Status Monitoring will need to use multiple variations of the name “Dunham” in order to thoroughly search the public index data. Cue Twilight Zone theme. [UPDATED: 2:34 PM 10.02.09 - Okubo has taken responsibility for the spelling errors. They are a non-issue.]
And finally, it isn’t clear to us yet whether the index data provided by Okubo to KingsKid includes all of the index data available via 338-18(d) for Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr. We need further clarification on that.
MAYA SOETORO
KingsKid also requested index data for Maya Soetoro, the President’s sister. Okubo’s response indicates that there is no record on file with the DoH in Hawaii for Maya. So, I believe we can safely put to bed all allegations that Obama’s online COLB was created using a COLB issued for Maya as a template.
Here is the request made by KingsKid on September 28, 2009 5:20 AM as to Maya:
As per Hawai’i Revised Statute 338-18(d), I am herein requesting “index data” available to the public according to the statute, specifically the index data pertaining to a birth record for the person known as President Obama’s sister Maya Soetoro, aka Maya Kassandra Soetoro, aka Maya Soetoro-ng…
Below is Okubo’s response:
From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid email redacted]
Cc: Onaka, Alvin T.
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: Request for Information
Aloha…
There is no record that responds to this request.
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health
PROPER RESPONSE UNDER OIP ADMINISTRATIVE RULES
This response by Okubo illustrates the correct format Hawaii state agencies must comply with when the requested records are not maintained by an agency. (See OIP administrative rule §2-71-14(c)(1).) If the agency does not maintain the record they must inform the requestor that no such record exists.
All of this correspondence between Okubo and KingsKid is encouraging. It tells me that the DoH is aware of a growing public enlightenment concerning citizen knowledge of open government laws. It’s important now that we stay on point and get all of the information the law makes available to the public.
BASTIONS OF ELIGIBILITY BLOWIN’ IN THE WIND
I would like to point out that the two core bastions cited by members of Congress and the main stream media as providing credibility to Obama’s eligibility issues – Factcheck.org and the Hawaii Department of Health – have both been seriously impeached by the findings of this blog.
Not only was Factcheck.org forced to admit I caught them making a serious error as to their factchecking of President Obama’s Kenyan citizenship, they had to publish a second apologetic response due to their having mistakenly reported that I was a “former attorney” while I am fully licensed. Factcheck.org blamed their mistake on other news reports, but they certainly could have checked with me or the New Jersey court system had they been truly dedicated to getting their facts straight before publication.
Now the Hawaii DoH has been forced to back pedal from a previous pattern of issuing blanket denials of access to “all information” contained in Hawaii vital records.
My next report will analyze the legal means by which the public should gain access to President Obama’s vital records which have already been made public by him and the Hawaii DoH.
by Leo C. Donofrio, Citizen Attorney http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com
Copyright 2009 Leo C. Donofrio
October 2, 2009 at 1:23 PM
And here is Okubo’s response:
From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid - real name redacted]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Clarificatio, Please
Aloha..,
I am sorry; I may have misunderstood your request. The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.
The Department of Health does not hold divorce records, they are with the Department of Judiciary.
Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health
So now we know that the DoH doesn’t maintain divorce records. Those are maintained by the “Judiciary”.
So, Okuba says the DoH does not maintain divorce records. Since Okubo provided “bride” and “groom” information, it appears she is providing marriage records.
Are marriage records kept by the DoH, but not divorce records? Or, is Okubo trying to manipulate us once again?
Just curious?
[ed. marriage, yes. divorce, no.]
October 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Leo,
Also, it’s too bad that we don’t know someone born in Hawaii and see how their vital records come up. That would be interesting to know.
[ed. that will come...]
October 2, 2009 at 1:26 PM
Another Obama czar exposed = Okubo, Bamboozler-In-Chief
October 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Congratulations on receiving confirmation that you were right all along about the index data. I look forward to seeing what more will be revealed in the index data, as well as any required disclosure of the vital records that the DOH’s public statements triggered.
October 2, 2009 at 1:36 PM
Something smells here. First, the change of attitude on the part of Hawaiian officials, then the misspelling of Stanley Ann Dunham’s name twice,then the name of Barack H. O’Bama the II instead of JR. and last, the reference to Bride and Groom instead of Mother and Father. How would a birth record have any knowledge of the marital status of the alleged parents. Just like the term African on the COLB, I believe there is something rotten here in Hawaii, Denmark took care of the rotten today in there own country. Keep the hounds on the trail even though the culprits are attempting to have you walk through streams of water to throw you off the scent. All the best.
October 2, 2009 at 1:37 PM
It would appear, at least to me, that they are still attempting to misdirect the person requesting to the recorded marriage files of the parents rather than to the vital stat. files from BHO jr.
October 2, 2009 at 1:38 PM
Leo, this is a tremendous about face by the Doh. Looks like someone finally sat down and rethought their course of action. Let’s hope there’s not too much planned strategy in this apparent reversal and that it is truly based on an epiphany regarding their duties and obligations.
Eyes wide open, and stay the course!
loucon
October 2, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Leo, it isn’t clear to me whether the “blue” words are literally what DOH replied with, or were there further details such as date and location.
[ed. everything that is available under 338-18(d) is in the post... there was no other info provided.]
October 2, 2009 at 1:46 PM
[So, I believe we can safely put to bed all allegations that Obama’s online COLB was created using a COLB issued for Maya as a template.
Here is the request
As per Hawai’i Revised Statute 338-18(d), I am herein requesting “index data” available to the public according to the statute, specifically the index data pertaining to a birth record for the person known as President Obama’s sister Maya Soetoro, aka Maya Kassandra Soetoro, aka Maya Soetoro-ng… ]
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I never bought the template argument (if Maya had one, why wouldn’t BHO?), but I’m still not convinced they don’t have Index data on Maya, because of the multiple reported spellings of her name, eg “Sotoro.”
Is there a way to ask if you don’t know the spelling of the name?
October 2, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Great work Leo.
looks like they tried to imply the name and sex of the registrants were BHO’s parents maybe….which would make the whole think another attempt at misdirection…
strange how they would disclose BHOs birth info but not one peep about the registrants…meaning that it still could be possible that SAD’s parent(s) were the actual registrants instead of a hospital or medical doctor or SAD and BHO (sr) themselves…
[ed. there's nothing strange about it. 338-18(d) requires name, sex and vital event to be released. that's what they gave us.]
October 2, 2009 at 1:50 PM
It would certainly be prudent to confirm that the stated bride and groom came from the SAME record in the marriage database.
I’m just sayin’
[ed. this is a legit record. Okubo isnt going to provide the info, then also tell you how to find it for yourself if the info wasn't legit. researchers will be visiting that office.]
October 2, 2009 at 1:51 PM
[...] More News from Leo Donofrio By politicaldoc http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-presi... [...]
October 2, 2009 at 1:53 PM
Thank you for the work you are doing. Godspeed!
As to why the index data for Obama’s parents, listed as Bride and Groom was provided: KingsKid did request, in the fourth paragraph of the Sept 25 request to Okubo by saying: “If you have other information that you care to make available in addition, please send that also.”
I prefer to judge actions and not motives, however, that could be the reason for providing that information.
[ed. I prefer not to judge either. That's why I had KingsKid ask why it was provided. I gave Okubo's response as well. I am a researcher and I have to ask questions. All of this index data should have been made public ages ago. TerriK should have been informed that she was allowed to see it. She should not have been told that Okubo and Fukino could not release "any information". This info puts alot of stupid misdirection issues in the grave. There has been a pattern of misdirection and because of that pattern time has been wasted. we must continue to ask questions when things appear strange. This is not nice nice time. This is an information war.]
October 2, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Leo at this point I wouldn’t discount anything until two eyes can see for themselves.
Quote
It also tells one where to view the actual index data with your own eyes, “…the Department of Health’s Office of Health Status Monitoring at 1250 Punchbowl Street in Honolulu.” Unquote
October 2, 2009 at 1:54 PM
Please note that with regard to the “Bride & Groom” index data, Okubo states, “I may have misunderstood your request”. If she misunderstood the request, she should have responded by saying, “I misunderstood your request”, NOT “I may have misunderstood your request”.
In my opinion, Okubo’s voluntary release of the “Bride & Groom” index data is direct evidence of the continued subterfuge of the Hawaii State Department of Health. Simply put, Okubo’s disclaimer, “I may have misunderstood your request”, is disingenuous. The release of the “Bride & Groom” index data, coupled with Okubo’s disclaimer, “I may have misunderstood [that you wanted me to not only eat the cookies, but also to give you directions to the cookie jar]“, is an insidious attempt to misdirect the public into believing that the Hawaii State Department of Health is transparent and can be trusted…
October 2, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Leo,
This is confusing. I was expecting many more index records showing access to BHO’s vital records.
One curiosity question: Should you not be able to receive the date of the transaction? A birth record for BHO. OK, when was the index record recorded? Does the law not provide for the release of the date along with the data?
1. Ths supposed COLB shown on the internet. Should’nt there have been index records that indicated that someone, BHO or his representative, accessed the vital records to print the COLB?
2. Didn’t factcheck claim that they viewed the actual records in Hawaii? If so, shouldn’t there have been index records for that transaction?
3. What about the amended birth certificate? Wouldn’t index records have shown up for that? (If it actually existed.)
If this single index record is all that exists for BHO, then does it indicate that he was born and that no further accesses to his vital records ever occurred?
Keep plugging away. A flood of information is on the way to you.
To the public: Don’t flood the DOH with requests. Allow experts, like Leo, to make most of the requests. He knows what needs to be requested to have the greatest impact.
Best regards, JimA
[ed. the statute provides access to very specific things...see my next report for how we get more.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:04 PM
Good work “Team Leo” not that you have their attention keep pouring it on.
October 2, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Why no dates? Since they released this information on a list to two newspapers, then the date, of course, is already public record and ought to be given.
Why not a copy of the index? Why a limited transcription?
What would someone see at their office that differs from this poor transcription? Can your volunteer in Hawaii be dispatched to the office to view the index?
Someone should send a single request for each permutation. That is, one name; one request; one e-mail.
All index data for Barry (H., Hussein) Obama (Jr., II).
Then:
All index data for Barry (H., Hussein) Dunham.
All index data for Barack (H., Hussein) Obama (Jr., II).
All index data for Barrack (H., Hussein) Obama (Jr., II).
All index data for Barry (H., Hussein) Soetoro.
All index data for Barack (H., Hussein) Soetoro.
All index data for Barrack (H., Hussein) Soetoro.
Then the same for Stanley Ann Dunham. Ann Dunham. Anna Obama. Stanley Obama, Stanley Ann Soetoro, Ann Soetoro, etc.
They are playing games.
Again, request copies of the original lists sent to newspapers.
[ed. more on this in the next report...]
October 2, 2009 at 2:14 PM
Leo,
The index data is available for inspection. Are photographs of the log books allowed? If so, perhaps a willing volunteer in Hawaii can volunteer to go to the DOH and take high resolution photos of the index data for those vital records, and perhaps others as well.
From a high resolution photo, you might be able to glean additional important data: Dates and events that took place just before or just after the event in question.
A high resolution, close-up camera with a pair of ’softened’ flash guns would take a remarkable image of the page of an index data log book.
One must avoid ‘hot spots’ from the flash.
If that would help you, then you may request a volunteer assistant in Hawaii, as you wish.
To the general public, again: Don’t flood the office in Hawaii with 10,000 persons seeking to view or photograph the record books. Leo’s representative might be stuck at the end of the line. Let’s be patient and allow Leo to work his way through this. If he needs help, he will ask.
In that regard, Leo has requested that his readers blast the links to his reports out to the world. We can all help in that way.
October 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM
Okubo’s response does not really seem to indicate anything directly pertaining to BHO parentage – or perhaps I missed something?
Perhaps the index data itself if viewed at the 1250 Punchbowl address would add more intelligence. Is anyone able to actually go view said indexes and report back? IIRC there was at least one poster who was from HI.
It’s a good start at least.
Oddly enough, didn’t BHO claim in his book “Dreams …” that Maya had American citizenshipo via the “HI Connection”???
[ed. did he say that. I dont know. I know it doesnt say anything about parentage. but it sort of implies parentage the way she provided it to KingsKid.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:15 PM
If there is no index data on Maya Soetoro, then how does she have a COLB?
[ed. She doesn't have a COLB. Okubo's response confirms that she has no COLB. That's the point. That one is put to bed. We are finally getting some real information and these stupid rumours which are distracting from the real issues must all be put away. I'm am totally psyched that this line of attack is getting genuine results. So many of the anti Obama things you are all locked onto are red herrings. the Maya has a Hawaiin COLB myth is now busted. thank goodness we are getting some truth.]
This verifies what has been said all along by “birthers” that Hawai’i allowed for foreign born children to gain certification of live birth IN HAWAI’I.
This also verifies that no one can trust any court documents filed by Stanley Ann Dunham (like divorce filings). SAD had a penchant for making false representations on Hawai’i documents.
October 2, 2009 at 2:19 PM
Doh has change of heart, and has now released Obama records!
Posted in News with tags obama, donofrio, natural born citizen on October 2, 2009 by loucon
Ok, so the headline is a little overstated, but none the less, true.
The DoH has now released some index data for Barack Obamma II regarding his birth in Hawaii. What is the relevance you ask? This is an apparent reversal of the DoH’s previous course that indicated no information could be release.
Thanks to Leo Donofrio and other members of his research team, it appears that the DoH has seen the light regarding their duties and obligations.
Read more here.
October 2, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Is there a discrepancy with the spelling of Barrack Sr.?
I have read Seniors friend in Kenya stated that SR’s name has 2 R’s.
Which again is weird that HA even has it incorrect?
Wasn’t he there to sign his true spelling?
Also, is there a way of asking HA about the race of Barrack Sr. being listed as African?
October 2, 2009 at 2:22 PM
What do we do with the blue text above? Is that all there is or is there some other data that goes with the blue data?
[ed. that's all that was provided. 338-18(d) allows for vital event, name and sex to be released.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Big old surprise, why didn’t they do that to start with?
Do you think they are trying to head you off from digging any deeper?
October 2, 2009 at 2:29 PM
If they have no index data on sister Maya was does that mean??? I thought she had a Hawaiian COLB or something???
[ed. Maya does not have a COLB. This proves she does not. There are no records with the DoH for her. End of myth. Dome and dusted. So much BS has become folklore that people are going to have a hard time accepting the truth as it comes out. the nation has been baffled on purpose.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:29 PM
Hooray — and continued admiration for you and your team’s efforts.
However, I am a bit confused on two points. The first is a statement at the beginning that states that the theory that Obama Sr. and Dunham were not married was put to rest. Then you stated the informaton of bride and groom came from Dunham’s index card. This then leaves the status of whether Obama had the parents blocks on his birth certificate filled in. In other words, it is still open. (NOTE: I feel this is a side issue and as you said, we must remain focused on the nbc issue.)
[ed. no. it's not open. they were married. their marriage index data is on file with the DoH... myth conclusively busted.]
The second deals with no index card data for Maya Soetoro-Ng. This is possible if she remains an Indonesian citizen — which she is not — (OR) she got an American birth certificate (Certification of Live Overseas Birth from the US Embassy transferred to registering the birth in ANOTHER state). The reason I really would like to see that Certificate of Live Birth (or even the Certification of Live Birth (short form)) as I believe that there was some gaming of the S-2 visa system. (NOTE: Again a minor side point and not important to the focus on nbc.)
[ed. the point is she has no Hawaiin COLB. myth busted.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:31 PM
This seems to be in conflict.
From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid - real name redacted]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Clarificatio, Please
Aloha..,
I am sorry; I may have misunderstood your request. The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.
The Department of Health does not hold divorce records, they are with the Department of Judiciary.
On the website: http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html
Vital records (birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates) for events that occurred in Hawaii are received and preserved by the Office of Health Status Monitoring, a unit of the Department of Health. In Hawaii, access to vital records is restricted by statute (HRS §338-18).
dictum ac factum.
loucon
[ed. what the hell? geez. this is just too weird. we're looking into it. thanks for pointing that one out.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:31 PM
[...] Here: [...]
October 2, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Leo,
I note that Janice Okubo has chosen to omit the dates of the birth of Barack Hussein Obama II and the marriage of Stanley Ann Dunham to Barack Hussein Obama I. Why omit the dates?
[ed. she hasn't chosen to omit them, the statute only requires "name, sex, vital event". that's what was provided.]
Also, has Okubo sourced this data from the original bound paper indexes produced circa 1961 or has she sourced this data from the current electronic index, which could have been ‘amended’, ‘added to’ or ‘corrected’ at any time prior to Okubo’s release of her e-mail today?
[ed. the current index. the statute only demands this info be given to the public. future versions of 338-18(d) do not apply. older index versions used to give more. I am not certain if any other info would be available in person, but I doubt anymore would be.]
Someone should go into the DoH offices immediately and demand to be shown the original birth and marriage indexes in the bound volumes, produced in 1961.\
[ed.you can't demand that under 338-18. the statue does not allow you to. other info should be forthcoming through other means but this is what's allowed via 338-18(d).]
The pages for 1961 should be photographed, if legally permitted, otherwise transcribed, so that this original index data can be compared with the data released weekly by the DoH, in 1961, for publication in The Honolulu Advertiser etc. (which can be seen on microfilms in the Hawai’i public libraries).
October 2, 2009 at 2:37 PM
Hi Leo,
superb job – well done. I assume someone will soon go to HDoH and retrieve copies of Obama’s vital records which will show if he was born in Hawaii. Is this what we can expect?
[ed. no. you can't just walk in there and get his vital records other than this index data. for anything else you must be granted access.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Can she now say these are the Records?
October 2, 2009 at 2:40 PM
I don’t get it, they drag there heels providing requested info then just fork over unrequested info. Bizarre or dumb like a fox?
October 2, 2009 at 2:41 PM
The divorce papers that have been made public show Stanley Ann Sotero claims Maya as a US citizen, is this correct or just what the mother told the lawyer to write in the space? Thanks for the response. If not true, Maya’s US citizenship, it kind of blows the wheels off of the not filed until a later date for Obama having an out of country birth, correct?
[ed. I dont know about Maya's citizenship. all I know is that she has no COLB from Hawaii. that myth is busted.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:44 PM
GROOM
OBAMA, BARACK HUSSEIN
I want to know what Nationality and or country of Origin Barack Hussein Obama Sr. is listed under.
That is the real lynch pin right there.
October 2, 2009 at 2:46 PM
Hoping that one of your readers is close enough to Punchbowl Dr. to get there today!
Excellent work! Thank You.
October 2, 2009 at 2:48 PM
some likely meaningless tidbits:
I noticed that they are now cc: Alvin Onaka on emails. This seems to be a result of some coordinated response, new process. As I recall, this is also the same name that was signed as registrar on Obama’s Fact Check.org BC. A news article from a year ago stated his title as chief of the state Health Department’s Office of Health Status Monitoring
Interestingly enough, this guy Onaka and Fukino both attended college in Massachusetts, same area as Obama. It appears though that Obama was there much later than they were. They are both within a couple years of Obama’s age.
October 2, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Note that the index data provided DOES NOT state where the birth took place. No location, hospital or witness.
October 2, 2009 at 2:50 PM
It is tempting to infer from the index data provided that Obama’s birth record has not been amended. If Obama’s birth registration was amended, would that be an “event” for which index data would exist?
[ed. we need clarification on that... working on it.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:51 PM
Is that right that
1. there is a birth record about BHO on file.
None about Maya since she was born in Jakarta, means that BHO was born in Hawaii?
[ed. that's not established either way by this.]
2. Fukino showing the marriage index data without being asked.
Could it mean that the parents on file are not SAD and BHO sr. ?
But she wants to make it look like they are?
[ed. I think that's a question which is raised by the presentation...but us asking the question might be the intention for which the info was grouped. there are layers and layers here...]
3. would parents names be part of the birth record index data?
[ed. not according to Okubo. no.]
October 2, 2009 at 2:55 PM
KingsKid asked for ALL index data pertaining to BHO. From your previous reports, it sounds like index data would include everytime somebody touched this record, amended it, etc. This list from Okubo is very short and simple. Is that all there is? Or is she saying that these are like headers and topics and that in order to see the detail, one most go to the indicated office in-person?
October 2, 2009 at 2:58 PM
But again establishing that Barack Obama Sr was legally the father of Barack Hussein Obama II, and with the admission that Obama II was in fact a British subject at birth, under the jurisdiction of the British government, that he is not, can not, nor ever be a ‘Natural Born Citizen’ per the Constitution of the United States.
Barack Obama is an undocumented illegal alien, using forged papers.
October 2, 2009 at 3:00 PM
The DOH Web site says very specifically that the Office of Health Status monitoring DOES keep divorce certificates:
“Vital records (birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates) for events that occurred in Hawaii are received and preserved by the Office of Health Status Monitoring, a unit of the Department of Health.”
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html
On a separate page, you are given instructions on how to request such records:
“All applications requesting certified copies of birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates must generally be made in writing (application forms may be downloaded from this site – see below). ”
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html
Are these people lying or incompetent??
[ed. I know. This is beyond crazy...trying to get to the bottom of it.]
October 2, 2009 at 3:01 PM
[ed. that will come...]
Leo, you’re always one step ahead….good for you.
And I just don’t buy all of what they sent. Sounds like much of nothing to me.
October 2, 2009 at 3:01 PM
I have a question….If the index data is all that can be gotten…then how did Factcheck.org get the COLB with different data on it…if that COLB is from the DOH why were they at liberty to give the additional information….and if they did make it public back in 2007 why can’t we see this information for ourselves now if it is no longer private…like parents info….I believe the COLB listed father’s race as African….unusual for back then??? I guess what I am asking is can’t we get more clarification from the DOH if this other data was made public before now??
[ed. they didn;t get the COLB form the DoH.]
October 2, 2009 at 3:04 PM
When a person requests information, is the correct response a transcription that is completely out of context? That’s what this is. There’s nothing in her e-mail that looks remotely like official records from a state vital records office. Is this what was requested? Is this what you expected to get back, or did you expect a scan or photograph of an actual document?
[ed. she was told how to get the index data from the file... I the actual record could be different. this is what Okubo said was available at the office. we shall have to get somebody down there. any volunteers?]
October 2, 2009 at 3:07 PM
What an incredible turn of events and so completely 100% out-of-
character too.
Hawaii releases index data that they wouldn’t release just 3 days ago
to another requester.
I am sure they sent that index data to all the others that requested
it earlier this week, too.
[ed. No. I don't think so.]
It’s always good to verify that things are what they seem.
October 2, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Is it possible the birth index was amended or even created in response to the non-binding resolutions in the House and Senate?
Or, stated differently, how do we find out the origin (date, etc.) of the Birth Index, etc.?
October 2, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Re BHO II vs. BHO Jr.
I would not be surprised for Obama to have multiple records on file.
If he does, Okubo’s apparent willingness to provide data may still be re-directing.
First they build a fake trail, then they drop some “bread crumbs” to lead you down the wrong trail.
October 2, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Does the fact that BHO has one index event listed mean anything?
For example, does it mean that if he was born there, there was no later adoption event? Or if he was not born there, there was a later event, like perhaps an adoption?
Just wondering if the one entry means one event or it could include multiple events.
October 2, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Is there any reason to ask (or force) if this index data (which is from a computer database) matches what is on the original hardcopy BC? The reason I state this is because it is EASY for someone with intent to hack a computer database, but much harder to manipulate a hard copy. If you can get clarification, also ask if the hard copy being viewed is from the computer screen or from the original in hand.
I bring this up because as we know the passport information for Clinton, Bush and Obama was reportedly hacked into, and nobody knows what changed if anything.
October 2, 2009 at 3:21 PM
I love it!
Now can we redirect our attention toward the NBC issue and Quo Warranto?
Have you have satisfied the mystery about his place of birth? Is anyone even concerned now about that aspect?
What needs to be done to move this toward a ruling about NBC?
It almost feels like one of those nightmarish “Days of Our Lives” soap operas…where there is a knock on the door and the announcer says, “Stay tuned ’til tomorrow, when we find out who is behind that door…” and of course they drag it out another week discussing all the “possibilities” of who it could be. Let’s get on with it~ every day brings us closer to a New World Order.
(Deep breaths SissySue; deep breaths!)
October 2, 2009 at 3:22 PM
loucon we need link!! read more where?
October 2, 2009 at 3:24 PM
You say that there was a request for files on Maya and the reply was that there are none. There was also a request for files on Mr. Barry Soetoro. Were there some or none? If some, will you give details?
October 2, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Leo,
“[ed. the current index. the statute only demands this info be given to the public. future versions of 338-18(d) do not apply. older index versions used to give more. I am not certain if any other info would be available in person, but I doubt any more would be.]”
The reason I used the word ‘demand’ is because the DoH used to allow genealogists to view the original bound indexes. This established practice was suddenly withdrawn
[ed. please elaborate. How do you know this info? When did they stop the practice?]
- in my view to cover-up information that would allow researchers to check the bona fides (or otherwise) of claims made by Mr Obama about the circumstances of his birth etc.. Dr Fukino is acting to prevent researchers from cross-referencing with other people listed on the same original bound indexes, produced in 1961.
Even if Dr Fukino allows access only to the CURRENT ELECTRONIC AMENDED INDEX, it would be very useful to compare that data to the data released weekly in 1961 to The Honolulu Advertiser. I believe that there will be a lot of discrepancies – and we will be able to draw conclusions from these discrepancies. I wish I was in Honolulu. I would do it myself.
BTW, I don’t understand what you mean by “future versions of 338-18(d) do not apply”. Could you please clarify.
October 2, 2009 at 3:33 PM
Does every vital record (singular) necessarily have index data to go with it?
October 2, 2009 at 3:35 PM
It makess lperfect sense to me but……
In the 1960-1961 era, In order to get a marrpage licence one had to have blood tests to prove they didn’t have V. D.
Therefore the DoH would have a record of that. That would account for bride and groom records (I beliieve Ann and senior were requested)
the birth index contains a record for BHO II, it exists as a birth record but this does not give any info as to how many documents are contained in the file or whether his records were amended alterred or changed. I believe it is the equivalence of stating we have a file (in our birth records) on BHO Ii and nothing more.
October 2, 2009 at 3:36 PM
Leo,
the index data:
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
MARRIAGE INDEX
SORTED BY BRIDE
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
GROOM
OBAMA, BARACK HUSSEIN
BRIDE
DUNHAN, STANLEY ANN
does not list a *date of birth* for Barack Obama II.
If the original birth record was amended, and the change included an indexed field, this would generate new index data – otherwise how would DoH staff efficiently find computer records if the old indexed fields were not amended to facilitate searching?
If there were two versions of the index data, how do we know that we have only been told the new, updated version, and not been told what the old index data was?
It is suspicious to leave out the date of birth – if that were given with the index data it would tend to fix the other fields to the time period that the D.O.B. occured.
One wierd thing is that D.O.B. is listed as index data in OIP Opinion letter No. 90-23:- [June 28th 1990}
Page 3
First we note, at the outset that the original birth certificate of persons who were born out of wedlock, or have been adopted,
Page 4
are sealed by the DOH, and public access to such records must be by order of a court of record. See Hawaii revised statute 338-20, 338-20.5, 338-21, 1985 and supp. 1989
With respect to vital records which are not “sealed,” section 338-18, Hawaii revised statutes, expressly restricts access to vital statistic records, while at the same time, expressly authorizes the disclosure of such records to those with a particular status. Section 338-18, Hawaii revised statutes, states:
338-18 Disclosure of records (a) to protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to insure there proper use, and to insure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawfull for any person to permit inspection of, or to dislose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part, or by such regulation as the Department of Health may make.
(d)Index data consisting of name, age, and sex of the registrant and date, type and file number of the vital event and such other data as the director may authorize may be made available to the public.
That text, at (d), is different to the other versions I have seen, with far more types of date listed. Which quote of the law is the correct and full up to date version?
What date did UIPA first govern gov. records in Hawaii?, was the law fully active before the scanned OIP letter (re-typed above, in part)?
Is Obama’s vital record(s) “Sealed?”
Are 338-20, 338-20.5, 338-21 still active re: adopted and illegitimate people’s vital records?
Is the Fukino disclosure of index data redacted because of these issues to exclude D.O.B., the marriage date, and the “version date” of the index data disclosed?
Leo I appologise if some of the quotes seem to be speculating about Obama. I don’t want to gossip, its just the type of index data disclosed, and the type of data withheld seems to be highly significant.
October 2, 2009 at 3:40 PM
The clouds appear to be parting and the sun peaks through. Things are always, always better in the light of day. It appears that we will finally get to the bottom of this – at least we now have a good start. The truth will hopefully set us all free.
Leo, my heart spills over with gratitude for your service to this country and to truth.
October 2, 2009 at 3:42 PM
I called the Hawaii Judicial Court Records Division today. I requested the following information relating to the divorce of Stanley Ann D Obama and Barack H Obama.
I was one of the original four who retrieved the 1st 1964 Divorce Decree from Hawaii via a private investigator.
Today’s request is below:
Hawaii Court Records Administrator:
I am requesting a complete paper copy of the following document from the Circuit Court of the First Judicial Circuit State of Hawaii, Division of Domestic Relations.
Please provide me with a hard paper certified copy of the following documents to include:
Docket number: 57972 – Divorce Document and complete Divorce Docketed papers pages 1 through and including page 12. There should also be several Exhibits attached to the divorce documents, including documentation and certification of a son born to the marriage and postal service notice receipts. I am requesting any and all papers and documents that are included in this docketed case 57972.
Date filed by court clerk: Jan 23 1964.
Libellant: Stanley Ann D. Obama
Libellee: Barack H. Obama
Judge: Samuel P. King
Judge order signed by judge on March 20, 1964
Please email me if you have any questions at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
Please advise of the costs and fees involved and I will arrange for payment.
Thanks for your assistance.
[ed. let us know what you find.]
October 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM
typo… Judge Carter’s ruling to NOT dismiss on Monday 10-05-09 MAY start the story to be revealed.
October 2, 2009 at 3:47 PM
And again Dunham is misspelled! LOL
loucon Says:
October 2, 2009 at 2:31 pm
This seems to be in conflict.
From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid - real name redacted]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Clarificatio, Please
Aloha..,
I am sorry; I may have misunderstood your request. The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.
The Department of Health does not hold divorce records, they are with the Department of Judiciary.
On the website: http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html
Vital records (birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates) for events that occurred in Hawaii are received and preserved by the Office of Health Status Monitoring, a unit of the Department of Health. In Hawaii, access to vital records is restricted by statute (HRS §338-18).
dictum ac factum.
loucon
[ed. what the hell? geez. this is just too weird. we're looking into it. thanks for pointing that one out.]
DoH Reverses Course – Releases Index Data For President Obama, Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr; No Records For Maya Exist. « Count Us Out Says:
October 2, 2009 at 2:31 pm
October 2, 2009 at 4:49 PM
Leo:
Keep in mind that the “index data” so far provided shows that SAD and BHO-I were married but you are assuming they were married to each other … and we don’t yet know not only the “if” of that but the “when” and “where”.
In view of past experiences with HI presentments it may pay to cast a wary eye on them for a while until we know more.
[ed. the index data is available at the office for health status monitoring. I am convinced the evidence shows BHO and SAD were married and that there is no COLB for Maya. You may continue the search. I am moving on.]
October 2, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Due to past “Seussian Hooplah” might we now have to parse her statement?
“Index data referred to in HRS 338-18 from vital records in the State of Hawaii is available for inspection at the Department of Health’s Office of Health Status Monitoring at 1250 Punchbowl Street in Honolulu . The Director in accordance with 338-18 (d) has not authorized any other data to be made available to the public.
In response to your request the following index data is being provided:”
Then she gave the birth and marriage data.
But is this an inclusive list of all index data, as requested?
She says, “the following is being provided.” But might there not be more, which can be seen at the office location–address supplied according to the words of the guiding regulation?
Can we conclude from this e-mail that there has been one and only one event recorded at the DoH for Barack H. Obama (or the same person under any other name he has ever used)?
Can we conclude that there are no records whatsoever pertaining to a name change or any other “event” associated with this birth record?
[ed. we certainly need somebody on the ground there.]
October 2, 2009 at 3:56 PM
It is not ” marriage ” data that they released but probably application for a marriage licence.
(It would be interesting to ask for Stanley Ann Sutorro and Lolo Sutoro.
The Indonisian statutes are very unusual as to marriages that are permitted that are considerred mixed or non Muslim . They also have requirements that all noncitizen marriages be recorded in the government offices etc. The Indonesian website states all the regulations)heYhe supposed divorce records of the Sutoro’s have been released.
October 2, 2009 at 3:57 PM
An interesting opinion letter on 338-18 which you may already have seen is here:
http://hawaii.gov/oip/opinionletters/opinion%2090-23.pdf
October 2, 2009 at 4:00 PM
KingsKid requested *all* index records for Obama Jr., but was only returned one. If only a single record exists (Obama Jr’s birth record), then why did the DoH state she had viewed Obama’s records to verify his nbc status? Something doesn’t add up here….
[ed. only "vital events" are listed in the index data...I dont know if an amendment or correction is a "vital event"...apparently from Okubo's response it is not... we need more info.]
October 2, 2009 at 4:00 PM
How and when did a lot of people hear that Maya had a Hawaii BC anyway, did it originate with Berg? But there was something that I had once, of course, it’s not a vital statistic, but it was some profile thing on Maya on the Internet and gave her statistics and her birthplace was listed as Hawaii. I no longer have this. When I was cleaning up my bookmarks, I specifically remember getting rid of it, which it probably doesn’t matter anyway.
October 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Leo,
Thank you for all of your work.
I hope I am not repeating a question.
Is there information now available as to why the director on her own declared Obama a “natural born” citizen.
I find it fascinating that a public official would make such a broad legal statement without some substantial information or directions.
If you have a chance. I would love your insight.
Thanks
October 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM
Michelle Obama stated that Barack’s mother was “definitely single” when she gave birth.
Lamecherry said he found evidence Barack went by the name Berrack or Berrick, pronounced like derrick.
Okubo’s playing hide-the-records again with the divorce records. She lied. She lies. She’s a liar.
Maya was born in Indonesia, SAD was Indonesian, shouldn’t she have naturalization papers even if married to an American?
October 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM
I don’t know if this is relevant, but there’s a requirment on the application for a marriage license (as currently posted):
“If previously married, proof of original divorce decree or death certificate needs to be presented to the marriage agent by the applicant if the divorce or death was final within 30 days of applying for a marriage license.”
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/marriage/index.html
Barack Sr. was reportedly married before or at the same time as when he allegedly married Obama’s mama. Would be curious if this record would be on file with the state of Hawaii.
Also, should there be TWO marriage records for the Obamas?? One would be the marriage license and the other a marriage certificate?? Maybe they obtained a license but didn’t actually get married?? Just a thought.
October 2, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Since Michelle lied about the marital status of SAD when Barack was born…”WHY?”
October 2, 2009 at 4:10 PM
Based on that last opinion letter, it could be that a birth certificate is sealed due to adoption or *child being born out of wedlock.* Also it is unclear from the wording in that opinion whether sealed records are even subject to 338-18 (which would include 338-18 (d) ).
The relevant passage begins on page 3 and continues on page 4. It is an image of the document, so I can’t copy and paste…
October 2, 2009 at 4:11 PM
I suppose you are already on this…
but since Barack already released his COLB it’s no longer privacy protected, can we see the original copy from DoH? I personally don’t think it exists.
October 2, 2009 at 4:20 PM
Keep on it, bubba!
October 2, 2009 at 5:22 PM
“There is no record that responds to this request.”
Something just sounds fishy here. Notice it doesn’t say no such person is on file and simply says no record RESPONDS to THIS REQUEST!
[ed. it's a proper response. i understand it.]
Sounds like if you merely enter the exact spelling in the way it was presented then nothing comes up and therefore, there is no record that RESPONDS to THIS REQUEST!
Perhaps it isn’t the correct request or spelling or something which is why nothing responds to that particular request? Based on how past responses and misleading statements have been made I would not discard anything. Something just sounds fishy in how that is being answered.
October 2, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Here is another thought… I have administered databases professionally and one of the things that we do is to assign an ‘index’ to each record – each entry. This is typically a 32-digit number that is assigned sequentially as each record is added. In cases were additional data is added, it is common practice to leave an existing record and add a new record with updated information. A query into the database typically yields only the newest entry, but the others exist as history.
I know nothing about DOH’s data system, but I bet it has a numeric index field like I have described, and that would certainly fall under the description of ‘index data’. Date/time of record entry and last change are also typical ‘index data’. Clearly, these were not provided by Okubo, but they may be available if you ask for them.
NOTE: If I were to do a query on a database as described and ask for the latest record, I may get
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
but if I do a query asking for ALL records, I may get
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
Multiple records may all match BHO, but have different dates and data.
You need to confirm how many records matched this data.
Rock On!
October 2, 2009 at 5:23 PM
strange how they would disclose BHOs birth info but not one peep about the registrants…meaning that it still could be possible that SAD’s parent(s) were the actual registrants instead of a hospital or medical doctor or SAD and BHO (sr) themselves…
[ed. there's nothing strange about it. 338-18(d) requires name, sex and vital event to be released. that's what they gave us.]
(registrants name would also be the person/entity that reported the event, not just the person/event being registered, no?
[ed. no.]
Index data should have detailed information on the source of the report.., not just the name of the birth subject) registrant; a person who registers or is registered…
[ed. but the only index data that expressly must be released under 338-18(d) is the name sex and event.]
October 2, 2009 at 5:24 PM
I do not know if someone else has mentioned this, but could Maya be listed under a different spelling of her last name – i.e. Suturo?
[ed. there's no COLB for Maya. Im convinced. feel free to do an index check for all other spellings and let us know what you find. of course, I will print anything that comes out. i have too much to do. The Maya Colb issue and the Barack sr/SAD marriage issue have been crossed off my list.]
October 2, 2009 at 4:25 PM
Beyond that, I just don’t know what to make of this at all. I can’t see how Okubo could have “misunderstood” the request. KingsKid was very specific:
Leo, it’s called stalling……..United States Supreme Court are masters at it.
October 2, 2009 at 5:26 PM
Leo,
My 1st thought was: About Face-Forward March! Great work here.
One event I have never seen written in print anywhere online or otherwise is where Dunham & Soetoro got married. We do know that Ann filed for the divorce in Hawaii and it was finalized in Hawaii.
[ed. yes, we are looking into this.]
Are you checking into these index records also?
In regards to Maya, she would have had to naturalize wouldn’t she? Or does her birth to US citizen abroad fall under statute?
[ed. she was a citizen at birth through her Mom.]
I am still confused between these 2 types of citizenship when one [arent is a US citizen. Also, Wouldn’t Maya have had to have some sort of Hawaiian documentation to attend primary & secondary school?
Just more food for thought.
October 2, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Leo, they still are misspelling Ms. Dunham’s (not “Dunahm”) name wrong in the email. As listed below that I copied from your nice report listed above.
Keep digging. Great work guys.
From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid - real name redacted]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Clarificatio, Please
Aloha..,
I am sorry; I may have misunderstood your request. The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.
The Department of Health does not hold divorce records, they are with the Department of Judiciary.
October 2, 2009 at 4:27 PM
Leo:
Concerning your response to Slamdunk:
[ed. no. you can't just walk in there and get his vital records other than this index data. for anything else you must be granted access.]
I was born and adopted in Kentucky. I searched for my birth parents and I now have copies of my original birth certificate, my birth papers summary that provides my mother’s real name and my dad’s first name, and my family particulars. My dad’s last name was redacted, but his family name is in the document summary, not redacted. So I know my dad’s last name. My name and my mother’s last name on the birth certificate hids my real last name and hers. She in incognito to protect herself.
Kentucky allows limited access as to my birth certificate as I understand it, but I actually needed full access to the papers to get the full (as much as possible) picture. For me its all in the name. I just had to get the name right.
I had to go to an attorney and to court to gain access to my own documents. And to do so I had to receive permission from my step-dad. To view the information again requires another visit to my attorney and the court.
You just can’t knock on the door and get the information. There definitely is a proper time and procedure in these matters.
October 2, 2009 at 4:30 PM
What would be the result of asking for index information (vital event, name, and sex) for all births at each hospital in Hawaii for August 4, 1961?
October 2, 2009 at 4:30 PM
[...] the original: DoH Reverses Course – Releases Index Data For President Obama … Tags: Barack, Birth, data, Department, Hawaii, health, kings, marriage, Obama, office, okubo, [...]
October 2, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Leo:
My dad’s last name was redacted in it’s proper spot as to his identity. But his last name was otherwise revealed.
October 2, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Leo, I agree with Captain Steve, who says this: “First they build a fake trail, then they drop some “bread crumbs” to lead you down the wrong trail.”
This is all too fishy and not enough info.
October 2, 2009 at 4:38 PM
You really believe that Barry has not had time by now to fix whatever he needs to fix with the state of HI? I think you are underestimating his power and the power of the democrat tennacles throughout the democratic party in the state of HI… Barry knew he would eventually have to release something… at first he didn’t have it to release and no Judge ask him to! Now, he does… therefore the change in doh in HI and the change of a judge asking him to do so… the Judge Carter case… who knows? Judge Carter’s ruling to dismiss on Monday 10-5-09 will start the story to be revealed. But, it may be a story created by Barry himself! All i’m saying is America missed it’s chance to catch this fraud… he has been in power too long now!
October 2, 2009 at 5:42 PM
Thank you first for the great work you’ve been doing.
I see in the comments and above that you’ve stated the “Maya myth” has been busted.
And yet elsewhere I see that the only way to get the correct information about Obama was to request a series of permutations. While I see that was done for Maya, is it possible that there are other permutations or mispellings that might account for a lack of a record?
Is there any other possibility that can account for Obama’s statement that Maya was a citizen per the Hawaiian connection?
Given the level of subterfuge and misdirections we’ve seen, I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of dropping this, especially given the president’s own testimony in his book regarding Maya’s citizenship per Hawaii.
Thank you so much, again, for all you do! I will continue to follow your progress with great interest.
[ed. she was identified... you may check with the office of health status monitoring as well to confirm whether Okubo was completely accurate. I am convinced there is no COLB for maya in Hawaii. Im moving on.]
October 2, 2009 at 5:45 PM
If she gave you the marriage record for Sr. and Anna why didn’t she give the death record for Stanley Ann Dunham, aka Ann Dunham, aka Anna Soetoro, etc….she has death records does she not? Stanley Ann Dunham (Soetoro) moved back to HI in 1995 and I believe it is recorded that she died November 7, 1995.
[ed. we are aware of this issue and are formulating more requests.]
October 2, 2009 at 4:46 PM
In my view the phonies in Hawaii could be charged with “MALINGERING” or incompetence or something along similar lines.
There’s no way that any decent legislature would shirk pushing for a disciplinary act ordered to be placed on the MALINGERER.
They are on the public s payroll and if they were in private industry they would be charged with a crime of stealing the employers time and money by not producing what the employer pays them to do.
Grrrrrrrrr
October 2, 2009 at 5:02 PM
The Hawaii State Department of Health apparently has had a change of heart. We know that Okubo sought the authorization of Fukino to publicly disclose the index data, including the “Bride & groom” index data, as Okubo stated, “The Director in accordance with 338-18 (d) has not authorized any other data to be made available to the public.”
That being said, does anyone believe Fukino unilaterally made the decision to publicly disclose the index data?
Is it reasonable to assume that Fukino unilaterllay made the decision to publicly disclose the index data, including the “Bride & groom” index data?
Or, is it more reasonable to assume that Fukino sought the opinion of the AG in this matter?
Hence, was Okubo/Fukino “authorized” by the AG to disclose the index data?
Furthermore, was Okubo/Fukino “authorized” by the AG to disclose the “Bride & Groom” index data?
If Fukino did indeed seek the opinion of the AG in this matter, and if he was aware that she intended to publicly disclose the “Bride & Groom” index data, or if he instructed her to publicly disclose the “Bride & Groom” index data, in addition to the requested index data, then, “Honolulu, we have a problem…”
In my opinion, with regard to the “Bride & Groom” index data, the Hawaii State Department of Health cannot simply state they were following HRS 338-18 (d) when they publicly disclosed the “Bride & Groom” index data, as the “Bride & Groom” index data wasn’t specifically requested to be disclosed.
Now then, Okubo unequivocally not only relied upon HRS 338-18 (d), but she also relied upon Fukino’s “authoriztion” to release the “Bride & Groom” index data, as Okubo stated, “The Director in accordance with 338-18 (d) has not authorized any other data to be made available to the public.”
Under 92F-12(a)(15), the public is entitled to all “Information collected and maintained for the purpose of making” the public disclosure of the “Bride & Groom” index data, which necessarily includes Fukino’s “authoriztion” to Okubo to publicly disclose this information. Furthermore, if Fukino and/or Okubo sought the opinion of the AG before publicly disclosing the index data, the public should be granted access to the AG’s opinion…
October 2, 2009 at 6:03 PM
Hawaii Five Uh-Oh Part IV : “About Face”…
And “Forward March”! Hawaiian officials have just reversed course and are beginning to release index records.
This is a HUGE step forward for the Donofrio team.
CLICK on the photo for the full report
……
October 2, 2009 at 5:05 PM
It will all go back to her saying that Obama was a natural-born American Citizen. (and AG approved)
I am guessing this is where Leo and gang are at.
They put those records in play if in fact they used said records in any way to determine that fact.
If Obama has two parents that were citizens at the time of his birth in HI. then he is POTUS.
If he didn’t then he is not POTUS.
October 2, 2009 at 5:05 PM
It is too strange that Okubo offered index data on a record that was not requested (i.e. Dunham/Obama marriage) especially given how worried they were about privacy issues previously. Why would she do this? Does index data for a birth provide the names of the mother and father? By using the designation bride and groom instead of mother and father, she is causing one to question who Obama’s parents are. This would not be the first time where the bride and groom are not necessarily mom and dad. I know you do not like this kind of conjecture on your blog, but these DOH officials make you think this way with their odd actions.
October 2, 2009 at 6:06 PM
This may not be important, but I was wondering: If the publicly-available “index data” does not include the date or parents, why did the Health Department routinely give it to the Honolulu newspapers for use in their birth announcements?
[ed. the statute has changed.]
October 2, 2009 at 5:10 PM
I hope we get the rest of the information fast as Obama is spending our money so fast that China will own us pretty soon, America is almost bankrupt. Thanks Leo.
October 2, 2009 at 5:11 PM
http://www.politifact.com/media/files/obamamarriage.jpg
Obama’s marriage certificate. Note: no data on birthdates of bride/groom, unlike my own which also lists birthplace
October 2, 2009 at 5:13 PM
One last comment… the opportunity to prove this fraud was between Nov. 4, 2008 and Jan. 19, 2009 within the State Department still under control of the Bush Admn. relative to Barry’s passport and travel to Pakistan in 1981. All the Kenya – HI bs was and is just a red herring! He at best has “dual-citizenship” no matter where he was physically born and that makes him ineligible! Now it is too late… he now has control of the State Dept! We will never know what birth certificate he used to obtain a passport or what passport he may have had in 1981 for his travel to Pakistan and all this HI bs is just good for raising money! Sorry!
October 2, 2009 at 5:18 PM
i>I am sorry; I may have misunderstood your request. The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.
is FROM “index FILES”?? Doesn’t that appear to imply there are more “index files” on these two than just “bride and groom” to be offered? And didn’t the official here assume the request was for more (by misunderstanding request) than was actually requested? If so, then why not all the index FILES on the implied mother and father – bride and groom – because of their connection to Obama II?
October 2, 2009 at 5:23 PM
sorry I meant to say Jack Nicholson’s Mother turned out to be his sister.
October 2, 2009 at 5:31 PM
Here’s a thought after searching through the HRS for a possible statutory explanation for the “GROOM” and “BRIDE” in the index data you acquired. The story goes that Obama was conceived out of wedlock, his parents got married, and then he was born. We know that he could have acquired a birth certificate based solely on the statement of his mother, for example. Maybe his parents didn’t register a marriage until after Obama was born — a marriage that might have been “ceremonial” and presumed valid based on their word alone. Then, by HRS §338-17.7, a new certificate of birth could have been substituted for the original certificate of birth — whether based on truth or a lie — and the original evidence sealed and filed. Some of these points might seem irrelevant or stupid, or maybe this whole discussion is ridiculous, but I’d rather air on the side of including too much information rather than leaving something out that you might find useful:
1. §572-13 confirms that the DoH deals with certificates of marriage.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol12_Ch0501-0588/HRS0572/HRS_0572-0013.htm
2. By the HRS, “[a] ceremonial marriage is presumed to be valid.”
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0304.htm
3. §338-5 on “Compulsory registration of births” confirms that an original “certificate of … birth” could have possibly been “completed and filed” by “one of the parents” of Obama, attesting to a birth in Hawaii.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0005.htm
4. By §338-29.5(b), a “late” certificate of marriage can be “registered one year or more after the date of occurrence” and “shall be marked ‘late’ and shall show on the face the date of the late registration.”
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0029_0005.htm
5. §338-17.7 has to do with the filing of “a new certificate of birth for a person born in this State who already has a birth certificate”. According to §338-17.7(a)(1), a “new birth certificate” shall be prepared upon receipt of a “certificate of marriage establishing the marriage of the natural parents to each other, together with a request from the birth registrant, or the birth registrant’s parent or other person having legal custody of the birth registrant”.
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0007.htm
6. By §338-17.7(b), the “new certificate of birth” “shall be substituted for the original certificate of birth. Thereafter, the original certificate and the evidence supporting the preparation of the new certificate shall be sealed and filed. Such sealed document shall be opened only by an order of a court of record.”
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0007.htm
October 2, 2009 at 5:44 PM
If you trust this person listed below, they are in Hawaii and offered to help on one of your earlier post. Hope this help.
keith Says:
September 30, 2009 at 3:25 pm
aloha,
i live in hawaii. how can i help?
[ed. just stay tuned, we might need some research help. thanks for offering]
October 2, 2009 at 6:16 PM
Leo,
Great work as always. Okubo’s index data release raises the same suspicions that its COLB did i.e., The COLB lists Obama Sr. as an ‘African’ for race – unlikely to be used when most Americans would have used the terms ‘colored’ or ‘Negro’ or a no-no N word in 1961.
And in 1961, who spoke of ‘gender’? It was ’sex’, not ‘gender’, a product of PC overkill not seen until this decade or so.
October 2, 2009 at 6:29 PM
Is there anyway you can verify the data? I wouldn’t put it past them to manipulate it somehow.
October 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM
You guys are awesome…thanks for your great efforts. I hope the truth is revealed & someone steps forward as a true American hero from this deception.
God Speed!
October 2, 2009 at 6:41 PM
It’s pretty darn HUGE that a marriage license index is turning up something, after the red herrings tossed out by Michelle Obama, and the inability of the Time magazine reporter to track down that elusive license. Still not out of the woods yet if (the big “if”) a so-called “customary marriage” accorded legal recognition by the courts in Kenya (but not by their statutory scheme of things) would be granted recognition in Hawaii and thereby make the later marriage to Stanley Ann bigamy (null / void). That’s an oddity of foreign law that might go far beyond the ability of an American judge to parse — heck, even the Kenyans have been chasing their tails on the subject as they debated legislation for a proposed uniform “rule of law” governing marriages. And that debate has been one with involvement of international lawyers concerned about “dignity of women” issues in cultures that make room for polygamous goings-on.
But, at any rate, the existence of a “colorable legal marriage” — for which a written record exists in Hawaii — gives a HUGE boost to the dual citizenship and U.K. citizenship-by-descent through the father argument. And there is simply NO WAY that the Framers intended any split allegiances when they used the term ‘nbc’ in the Constitution.
I’m pretty confident that the Undead Revolution group’s future installments are going to make that pretty clear. The great weight of historical facts, providing context to the deliberations that occurred in 1789, will show that ‘nbc’ had a known definition. And deVattel was not its SOLE source, either. Story’s Commentaries deserve to be given some heavy weighting, as insight to AMERICAN jurisprudential thinking of that era.
October 2, 2009 at 6:45 PM
sissysue…LD is a looong way from done w/this portion…hence no where near ready to move forward w/NBC
=======================
LD…i just put a call into someone on oah’u who *might* be able to help.
i’m on maui–yet you did have another poster from one of the other articles that said they would help…not sure what island he’s on:
he posted on the “post & email” article:
keith Says:
September 30, 2009 at 3:25 pm
aloha,
i live in hawaii. how can i help?
[ed. just stay tuned, we might need some research help. thanks for offering]
October 2, 2009 at 7:55 PM
This is HOT, like the fabulous lava photo you posted:
KingsKid: “The truth always comes out, Ms. Okubo. You can save yourself embarrassment, if something not more serious, by quickly complying with Hawa’ii Revised Statute, paragraph 338-18(d)…”
I love it! Major kudos to you, KK, and all who are helping the cause.
A few comments:
I wouldn’t chase after the “Who are Barack’s REAL parents?” dead end. You can look at SAD and BHO I and see that they are the combination that made him. Okubo just wanted to look like she was being generous.
Does it make any sense to think Okubo is going to shoot straight with you about Maya’s records, and then tell you that death records are somewhere else, when they’re not? You should not trust this woman any farther than you can throw her.
Watch out for preconceived notions. A lot of very savvy people that regularly post on this blog think that Maya may have gotten a COLB. There are a couple of comments that reflect that her mother and BO II said she has American citizenship, according to Obama’s book and Stanley Ann’s divorce papers! We can’t stick our heads in the sand just because it would make the view less confusing. There’s a lot of strange $#!t going on here, so I’d be open to just about anything being possible.
Have a wonderful weekend, and keep up the good work – it’s definitely paying off!
[ed. we dont have to trust her about Maya. Any of you who still believe there is a COLB for Maya may ask for the index data on her and it must be provided to you if it exists. people believe what they want to believe. others search for the truth. how many times do I have deal with this same question? slow down. read what has been written. the index data is public data. have at it...]
October 2, 2009 at 7:14 PM
Leo, I’ve posted twice but I’ve never properly expressed my admiration. You are doing incredible work! Bravo!
I speculate that the missing link is, if it exists, an “adoption index.” Perhaps it exists in some other office and you need to direct the inquiry for adoption index data to that office.
The DOH could be trying to keep you occupied with their office to keep you from realizing you are asking the wrong department.
Have you determined whether an adoption index exists and what department it would be held by?
October 2, 2009 at 7:18 PM
President Obama is fighting the release of his birth documents for a reason. Some speculate it is because the long form certificate has no father listed or a father that is different than Obama, Sr.
You receiving unrequested “marriage” information for Stanley Ann is like saying you are receiving the data on his parents but you are not. You are receiving information about who his mom married; but the birth parental data has not been given to you.
I suspect it is the father issue that the DOH is trying to avoid releasing by side steping the issue and giving you data from a marriage certificate instead of the parents listed on Obama’s birth certificate. To make a determination on Obama’s natural born status, the parents listed on the birth certificate, not mom’s marriage certificate, is required.
October 2, 2009 at 7:24 PM
An index file is created by what event?
Was the index file supplied by Okubo initialy triggered by a request for information from a party that had the legal standing to make such request?
Was Kingskid request inclusive of all index data on file regarding the requested parameters of search?
Is the index file supplied only reflecting a search made directly by Okubo ? Fukino? Does it reflect all requests? Who else has the ability to perform record search? Hawaii Attorney general?
Back to my original question… An index file is created by what event?
October 2, 2009 at 7:30 PM
“BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M”
Leo,
I’m confused. How did they determine, from this information, that he was a “natural-born citizen”? Also, they don’t even list his place of BIRTH, whom registered the birth, or parents! Why did they stall so long if this is the only ‘index’ data they have to give? Why would you break the law to avoid giving this information?
October 2, 2009 at 7:37 PM
I agree with Miri -lumping the aka in one request is foolish.
it provides cover for giving only one set of records and doesn’t require her to say there is no record for others.none should say for the president.
leo you keep saying no date is required to be given for anything. what exmil-uk posted is confusing
not only should you request only one name but would
the year you request be significant? How do they sort thru people with the same name?
does the index have a time stamp/date of entry?that must be public info. also can you put the year in the request?like-what vital records index data is there for barrack obama jr. for only the year 1967? do not specify only birth data.
data with no year is worthless and unusable.
I don’t understand why she refused to release this data at first its already known and worthless unless it leads to a trail of legally obtainable data somewhere else or to prevent
a narrowing of request that she can’t refuse once she started responding.
the yearly paper bound books someone mentioned here is the key and if you are serious leo you would go there yourself.
October 2, 2009 at 8:40 PM
It just dawned on me from talking with Terri over at Freerepublic. They probably don’t have a birth certificate, Leo, and that is why the parent question is open and they tried to cover it up with giving you marriage certificate information instead. They only have Stanley Ann’s marriage certificate. They based their decision that he is a natural born citizen on something other than a birth certificate, I would suspect. A marraige certificate would not justify the AG’s NBC statement. An act of Congress?
What did you find out about the COLB issued for Obama? Did you ask for the index data used to issue the COLB? Did they even issue the COLB and if so was that used as index data for the claim he is a NBC?
[ed. they absolutely have a BC... it's a certainty.]
[Ed. UPDATED RESPONSE 9:50 AM 10.03.09
I should have said that it was a certainty that they have a "birth record", whether they have a "birth certificate" as opposed to a certification depends on whether Fukino was accurate in her October 31, 2008 statement. I believe she was but it's not a certainty. The index data just means it's a certainty they have a birth record.]
October 2, 2009 at 9:02 PM
[...] born citizen, attorney Leo Donofrio has, for the first time known to the eligibility movement, received an actual response from the Department with respect to some semblance of Mr. Obama’s background: The Hawaii [...]
[ed. Phil, the index data forwarded doesn't state that SAD and BHO are his parents...but I think it's interesting to note that they way the info was presented makes it appear as if that is the information forwarded by Okubo. It's not. It lists a birth event for Obama's index file and a marriage event for SAD ad BHO... but Okubo clarified that this was from their index files. He answer tells us nothing about his parentage form the index data she provided. ]
October 2, 2009 at 9:12 PM
Jacqlyn Smith Says:
October 2, 2009 at 3:01 pm
I have a question….If the index data is all that can be gotten…then how did Factcheck.org get the COLB with different data on it…if that COLB is from the DOH why were they at liberty to give the additional information….and if they did make it public back in 2007 why can’t we see this information for ourselves now if it is no longer private…like parents info….I believe the COLB listed father’s race as African….unusual for back then??? I guess what I am asking is can’t we get more clarification from the DOH if this other data was made public before now??
[ed. they didn;t get the COLB from the DoH.]
Leo, now you have me salivating!! Where did it appear from if not the DOH? You are the freakin man!!!!
[ed. they got it directly from Obama...the DoH did not generate it for them specifically as in from their office directly to Factcheck as far as I know.]
October 2, 2009 at 9:30 PM
I was listening to your show tonight about the conflict of interest with the AG to bring a case against Obama. You mentioned it would require appointing a special prosecutor.
Well what about a couple of Private Attorney Generals? I know two that might be interested in pursing this. These are real Private Attorney Generals. They have their seals. Would this be a possible solution?
[ed. no. court would have to fashion a remedy.]
October 2, 2009 at 8:42 PM
More misdirection in that these public officials have allready been caught in misdirection again.
“All applications requesting certified copies of birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates must generally be made in writing (application forms may be downloaded from this site – see below). ”
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html
Are these people lying or incompetent??
Either way its still the same misdirection. The heat is on so they throw you a bone it seems. The bone has no meat on it.
Born to a groom and bride? What kind of record is this?
What would any other index record indicate. A baby born to a groom and bride or mother and father?
Is obama unique for some reason?
Lets get somebody anybody into the state of Hawaii to see the actual index record.
It is obvious Okubo is responding to pressure. It almost sounds like a trial ballon index data release.
October 2, 2009 at 8:47 PM
From Luke 18: 2-7 — “In a certain city there was a judge who did not fear God and did not respect man. 3 There was a widow in that city, and she kept coming to him, saying, `Give me legal protection from my opponent.’ 4 “For a while he was unwilling; but afterward he said to himself, `Even though I do not fear God nor respect man, 5 yet because this widow bothers me, I will give her legal protection, otherwise by continually coming she will wear me out.’ ” 6 And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge said; 7 now, will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them?”
October 2, 2009 at 9:00 PM
Leo
“…have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
Am I’m missing something or reading too deep into this, but what is meant by ‘original birth certificate’? It seems that Hawaii has standard birth certificates and a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth and I wonder which one Fukino meant. The two types are treated the same but are different:
The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, during the territorial era, to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972.
Certified copies of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth may be requested following the procedures for certified copies of standard birth certificates (see Certified Copies). The eligibility requirements for issuance of a certified copy of a standard birth certificate apply to Certificates of Hawaiian Birth. And the same fees charged for standard birth certificates are charged for Certificates of Hawaiian Birth.
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/hawnbirth.html
October 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM
I am sorry for being so dense, Leo. How do we know for sure there is a Hawaii Birth Certificate if we have not seen it?
[ed. I dont know about a "BC", but we've been informed that there is a birth event listed in the index file. you may verify this with the office listed in the article which makes this index data available to the public. ]
October 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM
http://investigatingobama.blogspot.com/2009/10/leo-donofrio-on-new-hawaiian-birth.html
Is the info accurate?
If so, will it be just you or will TerriK also be on the show with you?
They included TerriK’s name in the announcement which makes it a little confusing.
[ed. first hour is just me. second hour is me with Justin Riggs.]
October 2, 2009 at 11:28 PM
Have you heard anything new about any record of a name change for Mr. Obama (Obama II)? Are name change records are maintained by the judicial branch of the Hawaii government?
(There would be either no such records or two records: one to change young Barack’s last name to Soetoro, with another application to change it back to Obama upon his mother’s second divorce.)
Thanks for your efforts.
[ed. had my researchers checking all the newspapers and they've come up with nothing. had he changed his name, it would have been recorded in a newspaper. doesn't look like he changed it...but people are still looking.]
October 2, 2009 at 10:37 PM
Leo:
Concerning acess and my previous two comments:
I have a document wherein my birth mom certifies that the “last name” declared as mine on my original birth certificate is in fact in error. Accordingly my birth mom was certifying that my actual last name was the same as her last name.
There is a high cost to hiding!
October 2, 2009 at 10:39 PM
Just a few minutes ago I received a second response from Janice Okubo regarding my two requests for index data, which I sent to you earlier and you posted. I did not pose a new question to her; this response is unsolicited. The difference is her response to my second question about the index data she used for her July 27, 2009 statement. She says, “There are no documents responsive to this question.”
October 2, 2009 at 10:40 PM
I spoke with you on the radio Fri. here’s my org ? you answered on your blog
“Roy Bleckert Says:
September 30, 2009 at 3:50 pm
You may have covered this before
IIRC, Daily Kos , Fight the Smears , released the COLB in mid 2008 ?
It is my understanding only Obama or relative or court order can obtain or release the COLB or let some one inspect it ?
If the COLB is in the public domain without challenge does that constitute a waving of privacy rights for the COLB or the long form BC ?
[ed. absolutely.]
If that COLB has been released to the public without challenge has a # that is referencing the long form BC & public comments made referencing info in either the COLB or the long form BC ,would either document be subject to disclosure in the public domain also ?”
Ok may follow up ? based on your answer on Fri. on the radio is ,the COLB references 151 1961 010641 is that the # to the long form BC ?
If it is and privacy rights have been waived shouldn’t we be able to access the long form BC in it’s entirety ?
here is a link to the COLB with the # on it
http://nobarack08.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/292/
October 2, 2009 at 10:44 PM
[...] emails published this afternoon by Attorney Leo Donofrio, Okubo admits the Department has index data on Barry Obama [...]
October 2, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Kudos, Leo & Kingskid…
The dam has broken…
October 2, 2009 at 10:55 PM
And there’s another difference in her unsolicited response. To my first question about index data for BHO, she includes only the Birth Index data, not the Marriage Index data as she did on the first response.
October 2, 2009 at 11:21 PM
I told Terrik that by law the Birth death and marriage indexes in Hawaii are to be maintained and made available to the public. I am glad you found the actual law.
I use Birth, death and marriage records in my work and use them in many different states and counties all over the country. Here is how they are usually organized:
Birth records are indexed by the child’s name, mother’s maiden name or by father’s name
Death records are indexed by name and sometimes by a maiden name
Marriage records are indexed in the Bride index (maiden names) or Groom Index
There are Divorce certificates but the divorce case files are maintained by the court. Most recorder’s offices, or health departments have discontinued the divorce indexes. Social Security wants a divorce case’s Final Decree from divorced people when they apply for Social Security so I don’t know if a Divorce Certificate meets the Social Security criteria.
Sometimes there are military records. Ask about the military records in case they have them. In Los Angeles County they have a small office with military records located in the County Recorder’s Office and I bet Hawaii has some military records too. I have seen these military records offices in several Recorder’s Offices.
Tell them you want to purchase the indexes. See If Hawaii has Birth, Death and Marriage indexes for sale. Most counties and some states have indexes on CD’s or microfiche for sale to the public.
I hope this information helps you out.
October 3, 2009 at 12:27 AM
Leo,
:0 This will blow your mind. :0 I was doing more congressional record research this evening and I found listed on Thomas.gov that Congress has since 1980 passed:
21 private bills conveying private citizens to people/children born abroad or who had one alien parent ‘natural born’ citizenship staus.
And since 1983 Congress has attempted 12x, 9 of them since 2000, to either change the definition of ‘natural born citizen’ for immigration/naturalization purposes or remove it all together for Article II qualification. They really want that English common law back!
There may be more, it all is in the wording of the search, but I feel this is enough of a list to really make an impact in my report on 511 which hopefully will be out no later than Tuesday.
BTW…great show with Ken 2nite.
[ed. please provide links or copy the data and present it here. thanks.]
October 2, 2009 at 11:30 PM
IMHO, this is more misinformation or evasive tactics.
Truth still not revealed enough…
but, some data HAS been revealed.
Continue to dig for treasure…
who is available and can be trusted to be onsite in HI?
October 2, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Perhaps TPTB are as sick of his ineptitude as the rest of the world seems to be, and are looking for an out, themselves. Just speculation, of course.
Gr8 and timely scripture, constitutionallyspeaking.
October 2, 2009 at 11:49 PM
I believe it was Robert F. Kennedy who said…
“Each time a man stands up for an ideal,
or acts to improve the lot of others,
or strikes out against injustice,
he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope.”
October 3, 2009 at 12:03 AM
[...] October 3, 2009 DoH Reverses Course – Releases Index Data For President Obama, Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr; No Reco… [...]
October 3, 2009 at 1:19 AM
http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/taitz-files-motion-seeking-recusal-of-judge-land/
Taitz files motion seeking recusal of Judge Clay D. Land
October 3, 2009 at 2:30 AM
Leo,
Without giving the DOH a name, Can you request the Index Data for the individual with the birth certificate number listed on the Obama COLB?
Would be interesting to see if that comes back as Obama’s
[ed. give it a shot.]
October 3, 2009 at 2:37 AM
There is obviously much more to Obama’s birth record than what is indicated by the index data. Why else would Obama spend 1.4 million + keeping it from the public and continue to defend against releasing his original birth record if everything was straight forward.
As we know foreign born children of Hawaii residents could receive a COLB in 1961. If Obama was foreign born and a COLB was requested, how would that be reflected differently than the index data released.
Would it not also be recorded as a Birth and have a subsequent birth announcement inserted in the newspapers?
October 3, 2009 at 4:06 AM
They supplied info that was not requested about SAD, letting us know that a marriage was listed in the index.Makes me wonder why was there no mention of the Soetoro marriage? Once they pulled up the info that would be listed, why not just supply it as they did the other marriage info?
If my understanding is correct, the goal is to prove that BO was born in Hi so we can move on with the real issue of eligibility/NBC. So all of the rumors that go with the bc bull have to be cleared up. Wouldn’t the Soetoro information be of importance, due to the statement that BO was adopted by Soetoro? That statement was made by Maya.(We are on a quest to find the video but so much has been scrubbed.)
It appears that much of what was written by BO, and stated by his Mrs and his sister is not true. This leads me to believe that they created these rumors as a smokescreen for the real issue, so it would never receive attention. As such, our purpose would best be served by not repeating them.
In all of his legal responses they have never said that he is a natural born citizen. When asked directly where he was born, BO said “I was born on Krypton.” When asked if he was a US Citizen he said “I am , a citizen of the world.” Those are odd answers for an individual seeking to be president. He is not that eclectic.
[ed. this is a very good comment. see my latest post where it is mentioned.]
October 3, 2009 at 3:12 AM
How about an Adoption Index? Is Obama on one of those?
October 3, 2009 at 3:22 AM
Leo, you are The Puzzle Master! Piece by piece… Insomnia can have its rewards. It lead me to a priceless video. If you have a minute to spare for a good laugh and proof that this issue is gaining widespread traction -watch this video clip from Breitbart.tv. It is of a Tonight Show/Conan O’Brien parody (with altered audio) of Michelle Obama’s appearance on Sesame Street:
http://www.breitbart.tv/big-bird-turns-birther-during-michelle-obama%e2%80%99s-visit-to-sesame-street/
Big Bird: “Well, look who’s here to push her husband’s socialist healthcare agenda! Or maybe you’re here to finally show us your husband’s United States birth certificate…”
Michelle Obama: “No Big Bird, I’m not.”
BB: “That’s because you can’t. Are you absolutely sure he wasn’t born in Kenya?”
MO: “I’m sure, Big Bird.”
BB: “That’s not what the Basket Bunch says.”
Lettuce: “Yeah, you’re husband’s a stinking liar!”
Tomato: “We’re gonna run him out of office!”
Then all the kids yell, “YEAH!”
Do you love it or what???
Sweet dreams & God bless everyone for their hard work, especially you, Leo-the-dualer. You are making it impossible for the “Bliefers” (as I call the Blind Believers in Obama) to keep denying the truth.
October 3, 2009 at 4:48 AM
Not a good week for the administration on many fronts, proceed with caution Leo.
October 3, 2009 at 5:11 AM
OOps! forgot to mention this is what caught my attention and made me wonder why she didn’t submit all the info as she searched the marriage index by “bride.” since there is a divorce I have to assume there was a marriage.
MARRIAGE INDEX
SORTED BY BRIDE
October 3, 2009 at 7:02 AM
I, for one, am grateful to “ALL” those who are in some way, keeping this Constitional Crisis before the public. Leo, you fell off the radar after the Supreme Court ruling, others were also carrying the banner. More and more people have become informed of this issue by those efforts and by whatever means available. Now, (with TerriK), Leo is back in the viewable effort. But do not denigrate others who have valiantly continued. This seems to be a collection of warriors who are pursuing this, who keep the opposition on their toes, who keep this alive, who will get this resolved. Many paths lead to the destination. Having more awakened to this crisis should be credited to all concerned.
October 3, 2009 at 7:21 AM
Dear Leo,
It is really troubling that DHoH won’t release what the President has already admitted and which is publicly known, so I wrote this email to Janice Okuba to see what she might have to say:
Dear Janice Okubo,
Aloha, and thank you very much for your response to my inquiry about HRS 338 (a) and (d). I hope you had a restful weekend as I know you have been put through a wringer over this issue of the President’s birth. While I can understand why you may not be able to provide a legal opinion, would it be possible to ask an attorney and share that opinion with me?
The Honolulu Advertiser reported the birth of Barack Obama II on Aug. 21, 1961.
The President declared in his 1-24-09 letter to Kapi’olani hospital that he was born there.
The President’s on line birth certificate documents his birth in Honolulu.
The President’s half-sister, Maya, said he was born in one of Hawaii’s hospitals.
The President declared himself a “natural born citizen” in his Dec. 13, 2007 Arizona Presidential Preference Election Candidate Nomination form. By saying he was a natural born citizen he was, by the legally accepted meaning of it, acknowledging his birth in the United States.
The President’s Hawaiian birth is a fact that is publicly known.
I am unable to understand what conceivable reason there could be for the HDoH not wanting to merely affirm what is already known and include it with the index data just released by HDoH.
Is there an ethic, statute, law, personal privacy provision, etc. that HDoH would be violating by affirming what is already known? Surely the President wouldn’t object. Or, maybe he would. May the truth be known.
Sincerely,
J. Black
October 3, 2009 at 9:48 AM
I should have said that it was a certainty that they have a “birth record”, whether they have a “birth certificate” as opposed to a certification depends on whether Fukino was accurate in her October 31, 2008 statement. I believe she was but it’s not a certainty. The index data just means it’s a certainty they have a birth record.
October 3, 2009 at 10:12 AM
>>>This seems to be in conflict.
From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid - real name redacted]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Clarificatio, Please
Aloha..,
The Department of Health does not hold divorce records, they are with the Department of Judiciary.<<<<
They once again have denied a legal request, and this time pointed to another agency. Games, Games, Games…..
October 3, 2009 at 10:18 AM
Hi Leo,
The gentleman at Obamafile is requesting that someone who has your email address let you know that there is additional information that you can request from both the Index Data and DBMS Log Data (that he says is also considered “Index Data”). He also adds that the database logs should be requested too.
I don’t have your direct email so I’m posting this in comments.
Thanks again for your perseverance and patriotism!
[ed. noted. pass on my thanks.]
October 3, 2009 at 11:19 AM
No one has mentioned this yet, surprisingly. The index data is in a database. Each piece of data in that database has the potential to be linked to other data. If someone requested my index data, for example, it might pull up the birth event for me, and the link to that data of my parents data, particularly (perhaps) their marriage data. Links like this in databases, and queries that return the requested data and any linked data are commonplace. So, there may not be as much mystery to the data provided as you think. At any rate, after thinking about it myself, I realized that the particular data provided needn’t be a focus; there are nonetheless many more questions to be answered.
October 3, 2009 at 11:25 AM
An index file is created by what event?
Was the index file supplied by Okubo initialy triggered by a request for information from a party that had the legal standing to make such request?
Was Kingskid request inclusive of all index data on file regarding the requested parameters of search?
Is the index file supplied only reflecting a search made directly by Okubo ? Fukino? Does it reflect all requests? Who else has the ability to perform record search? Hawaii Attorney general?
Back to my original question… An index file is created by what event?
October 3, 2009 at 11:34 AM
Leo,
Ask for all the metadata. That is contained on the source computer files and will contain who controlled the data, changes, when they occurred, et.
October 3, 2009 at 11:52 AM
This is turning out to be like a Dan Brown novel with puzzles and clues slowly being revealed and leading to even more twisted puzzles and clues.
October 3, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Leo,
I passed along your thanks and he responded that he would be happy to help you with the data bases as he is an expert in the field (he’s a retired technologist) and you’re welcome to email him directly at:
Beckwith@TheObamaFile.com
October 3, 2009 at 12:56 PM
Leo,
Why allow them (DOH) to continue to play games….I would think that “your” case seeking a writ ordering them to comply with UIPA re disclosure is now more than ever needed and deserved…because even if all the most recent questions are answered….to what certainy can anyone rely on the integrity of the info recieved.
Declaring anyone a US Citizen, NBC or otherwise IS NOT within their authority…..and the people are entitled to know the truth, aren’t they?
And as for BO and his privacy interests…well Hawaii does claim according to their laws that individual privacy interests come second to government interest when “employment considerations” are at stake…..just gleening that from their laws….
…whats the difference between exposing an individuals BC for date of birth, for being Govenor, (if there was a requirement that Goverors be 35 or older, as an example) or NBC for being President….
….and as another blogger pointed ot here, the requiements from Congressmen , to Senators to POTUS get more restrictive with the increasing rank of office, as per the US COnstitution…..
So why wait for more confusion, why not act now ?
Thanks
[ed. their 10 days isn't up yet for the ones I've sent them. Om only prosecuting my own UIPA requests...patience.]
October 3, 2009 at 1:07 PM
Leo, the old saying is, their is strenght in numbers. As jbjd has done with
his[ed. "her"] election fraud SC suit. Why not give us some blanket index data request that we all can fire off to DoH. Maybe a different request everyday.We could at least overwhelm them with request that they might get frustrated to the point where they may just release the info in a public statement or request that they could. Sooner or later they are gonna get tired. If the time stamp below is Hawaiian Time, she is already working kind of late. Why not make her work harder.
From: Okubo, Janice S.
To: [KingsKid - real name redacted]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: Clarificatio, Please
[ed. overwhelming them is pointless. the right questions are going to go through the OIP process and the courts... doesn't matter how many send them. I'll publish all my UIPA requests in due time.]
October 3, 2009 at 1:39 PM
I did a little research into the HRS for a possible statutory explanation for the “GROOM” and “BRIDE” in the supposed index data. My thought might be garbage, but here it goes. Maybe Obama’s parents were really married after his birth, or at least registered for a certificate of marriage after his birth.
We already know that Obama could have acquired an original certificate of birth by §338-5 and the word of his mother, father, or somebody else attesting to native Hawaiian birth:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0005.htm
It looks like Obama’s parents could have gotten a certificate of marriage based on their word, as well, for by the HRS, “[a] ceremonial marriage is presumed to be valid.”:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0304.htm
What if Obama’s parents claimed after Obama’s birth, whether truthfully or falsely, that they were married before Obama’s birth? By HRS §338-17.7(a), the DoH “shall establish . . . a new certificate of birth for a person born in this State who already has a birth certificate” in the event of “a certificate of marriage establishing the marriage of the natural parents to each other”, etc., etc. By HRS §338-17.7(b), this “new certificate of birth . . . shall be substituted for the original certificate of birth” and “the original certificate and the evidence supporting the preparation of the new certificate shall be sealed and filed. Such sealed document shall be opened only by an order of a court of record.”:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0007.htm
October 3, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Leo,
Seeing that Okubo misspelled Dunham twice, can we surmize that she has some sort of psychological obstacle to typing that name, as if she is very frightened to do so, as if she knows that in something she is not being honest?
As for the marriage record seemingly being presented from a search done on the mother’s name; that inclines me to think that, if she did the birth search first, she used the name on that record.
Which means either the birth record she looked at (the altered or original record) does not have the father’s name, or a search under Obama for marriage records gave her results she did not want to report.
Speculation, yes: but perhaps it will help analysing the future information released…
October 3, 2009 at 2:21 PM
Hey Leo…
I posted a comment that’s still awaiting approval. Did I say something that’s inadvertently inappropriate?
If so, I apologize. I guess I’m just really cynical about this reverse course and wonder if it’s wholly real…. in other words, enough to tell you the information requested while at the same time throwing curve balls to throw you and your team off course.
I would like it if you could reply to my question in the post still in the hopper but of course feel free to edit if I said anything that could be deemed inappropriate or improper, as that was not my intent.
Thank you again!
Mary Beth
October 3, 2009 at 2:42 PM
I note that those who think that Okubo named the parents of the child are wrong.
Okubo did not name them. Read her release carefully.
Index data for the birth record does not include the names of the parents. The full record has that information.
The additional data presented for Dunham and Obama, raised the question of where is the divorce record; to which Okubo lied, since HI law requires the DoH to keep that too.
So I surmise that she added the marriage record, because she wanted to forestall speculation about the parents of the child; since she could not release that information for an index file request on the birth record, she released another index file at her discretion.
The problem know is that in using her discretion to give information for the sake of public inquiry, she has waived privacy rights to that information on the birth record.
She also has weakened any claim she has not to use her discretion to release more information, no?
October 3, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Does it appears that Okubo may not have known that 50 plus years of divorce records are maintained by the Hawaii DoH, or is she just replying to these emails as instructed by her supervisors? It’s kind of hard to believe that she has been left to handle these emails on her own, and if not, I find it equally hard to believe that those directing her weren’t aware of the mis-statement made in the email. If the response was purposefully made to mislead the requester and thereby the public, that is a very serious matter and carries grave consequences for somebody.
http://loucon.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/important-announcement-from-the-office-of-mis-information-for-the-state-of-hawaii/
October 3, 2009 at 3:02 PM
That Bride and Groom wording strikes me as odd, to say the least. I am wondering… back on July 27th Dr. Fukino issues a press release and states there are vital record(S) ( plural) verifying Obama was born in Hawaii.
Then KingsKid requests “all index data pertaining to the vital records of Mr. Barack H. Obama”, and gets back the response there is a BIRTH INDEX and a MARRIAGE INDEX listing BRIDE AND GROOM.
When KingsKid asks for clarification of the “bride” and “groom” thing, the answer comes back…”I am sorry; I may have (note the “may have” ….not YUP I guess I misunderstood but I MAY HAVE) misunderstood your request. The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.”
And then also oh we don’t hold divorce records which apparently is not exactly true.
NOT “mother” and “father”, (which is what one would expect to be on a birth certificate) or NOT “husband” and “wife” as one might expect a marriage certificate to be worded but “bride” and “groom” which sounds like a wedding announcement.
So heres a possible scenario maybe? There IS an index file for Stanley Dunham and Obama Sr. that has a marriage certificate. But maybe Obama Jr.was born at home with a midwife attending and the maternal grandmother registered the birth and did not have the marriage certificate. But maybe she took along a wedding announcement of some kind, perhaps something printed in the newspaper. And so that announcement then becomes part of the of the index file of Obama Jr. along with the registered birth.
what a mystery.
October 3, 2009 at 3:07 PM
Leo,
I am certain that people in official positions are actively helping Obama hide his records. Given the risk to themselves if they are caught in a conspiracy, you can be sure that they have thought about the best way to protect themselves if things blow up. Two oft used strategies for personal defense are ignorance and accident.
In light of that, I don’t believe the repeated misspelling of names is an accident; it’s obfuscation and/or preplanning for their defense. Given the importance of the Obama issue, it’s unlikely that official emails are sent without double or triple checking, if not even having others review them, and every word is carefully parsed.
My main thought:
The records you are requesting are being pulled up on Hawaii State government computers. If someone thinks a particularly damaging record should be concealed, all they have to do is mistype the name by a single letter. Then they can respond, “We have nothing for that name or record,” and hope the case goes away. If it is ever determined that the record did in fact exist, and if they are questioned about it, they can say, “I don’t know how that happened. I must have typed it in wrong. See how bad I am at typing, spelling etc.”
By judiciously using the spelling “tool,” they will only give you what they choose to give you and nothing more.
Even Maya Soetoro is not settled in my mind. There are at least 3 possibilities.
1) They told the truth, and as you say, it’s “myth busted”. But it could also be:
2) They have it, it’s damaging, so they mistype the name and tell you they don’t have it.
3) They know they have it, but they have it under a different spelling than is asked (maybe Maya Sutoro, or Barrack). If it’s damaging they again say they don’t have it.
As you can tell, I don’t trust them, not even a little bit. I’d suggest that you don’t either.
Thx for your effort. Keep up the good work Leo.
October 3, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Ok, so she wrote,
“The “bride” and “groom” index data is from Stanley Ann Dunahm and Barack Hussein Obama index files.”
Index files. Plural. One for each? But is she leading us to assume that the bride in this case was married or betrothed to the groom that she mentions?
There’s a bride index. She searches for Stanley Ann Dunham. Finds a marriage. Is this a marriage to Obama or her marriage to Soetoro?
We know there was a marriage to Lolo Soetoro. Didn’t it take place in Hawaii? So, why not two entries for Stanley Ann Dunham? Or does the DoH think they’re required only to mention that Dunham was, at some point in time, a bride? Or is this index data only for the issuance of a license, not registration of a marriage?
Same for Obama the elder. Who did he marry? She’s leading us to assume that Stanley Ann Dunham was the bride for Obama. But is that what this index data indicates?
In the same way, she implies, by including the bride/groom data, that these were the parents for Barack Hussein Obama II. But is that what the index data indicates?
If Ms. Dunham was married twice in Hawaii, then the DoH did not provide ALL index data as requested. Of course, the request didn’t even ask for the parents’ data.
[ed. we can check that at the Office of Health Status Monitoring.]
October 3, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Leo,
Look very closely
I just noticed that the submitter asked for ….Barack H. Obama, II and/or Barry Soetoro.
The response was only for Barack H. Obama II.
If there was NO Barry Soetero she was obligated to say that no record exists or they don’t maintain that record. Instead they gave records for Barack H. Obama, II. Could be a mistake, but it looks like they have just admitted that Barack H. Obama, II IS Barry Soetero.
[ed. NO. As long as the person can be identiifed, all requests for records which pertain to that person are to be disclosed. I believe TerriK forwarded me something on this in that the law in Hawaii says that they have the obligation to forward all records on that person, they can't parse on the alias. But they don't have to issue a separate answer for each alias, so they dont have issue a statement that no records for Soetoro exist. I don't believe that Obama EVER used the last name Soetoro as an adult or that he ever changed his name to Soetoro. I don't believe that and I've seen nothing which proves it. Nada. Even if he was adopted that doesn't mean he changed his name. He certaily was known as Barry, but I don't see one single verified reference to him using Soetoro.]
October 3, 2009 at 4:58 PM
Hi Leo,
I forgot to add this suggestion. For comparative value you might want to ask for idex data on the Nordyke twins who were born within hours of Obama. It might prove interesting to see how their data looks compared to his.
Also, since they, the twin girls, did not have a notice in the newspapers and he supposedly did why not ask for the data regarding the notices of birth they sent to the papers?
Jimmy
October 3, 2009 at 5:01 PM
Sorry for my density, but a “birth record” could include birth certificates, amended birth certificates, long and sort forms, adoptions, name changes — any number of items — correct? That is, the fact that DoH provided a single index datum on “Barack Obama, II” does not mean there was only a single piece of paper, but that (at least) one birth record exists, leading to a single birth index datum?
Any paperwork from other sources (i.e., an adoption from family court, a name change from Lieutenant Governor’s office, etc.) having to do with that specific name are filed under that single birth birth index datum as separate documents? So, as in most bureaucracies, possibility of errors abound. That is, paperwork gets lost or fails to be included in the “birth record.”
Any misspelling or name difference should not result in a different birth index datum, though, correct? (In many databases, there so no “matched identity” unless some identifying number beyond name is found to match. Hopefully, DoH has reported all birth index data for that given name, and your researchers will be requesting birth index data for other possible names which could yield separate birth index data.)
October 3, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Leo,
1. If Obama’s parents are dead, am I correct in thinking that there are no longer any privacy issues regarding any and all information regarding their respective and joint records and thus no legal impediment to obtaining them from Hawaiii? If this is so, wouldn’t it also include any and all communications and prior requests for those records including who requested them and when? I assume the requirement for this crowd is being able to specify all the various combination of names and alias and spellings as well as possibily having to specify the exact records you want rather than a blanket request. I think this may be very helpful in giving direction as to who might be orchestrating the firewall and when this began. I would also suggest trying to get the same information regarding Obama’s grandparents as well as the couple who owned the house where Obama was supposedly born.
2. You have only excluded Maya Soetoro not having a COLB if you can rely on the information you think you know about her. But what proof is there validating her story? Is this her name(first,last, maiden or married)? Trust nothing in the family mythology particularly if it seems coherent.
3. Were the newspaper announcements actually made? It’s interesting there are no paper copies anywhere to be found and the only thing available is Microfilm or Microfiche which could have been substituted. Has anyone ascertained that the Department of Health or any other authorities actually send these announcements to newspapers? If they did then there should be a record of it and that should be accessible since it is already in the public domain and they released it. Do they still do this? How is it accomplished? If not, when did it stop and why? Did they ever do this? How do we know? That should be easy enough to find out and maybe one of your readers born in Hawaii could ask for a copy of their records regarding the process of making the birth announcement just to find out what is available and in what form as well as any communication surrrounding it. Also; did the announcements generally give the hospitals name or any other information?
4. It isn’t clear to me that Obama’s parents were actually married. Again, there shouldn’t be any legal impediment to getting the marriage record and all communication and correspondence regarding it since they are dead.
5. Regarding “natural-born” citizen: As a physician thinking like another physician trying to mislead someone, I think you could justify this phrase to mean a vaginal delivery or even more broadly to mean any live birth rather than stillborn.
6. Regarding the COLB: Is there any evidence that one was actually issued for Obama(or his sister) and is there anyway to find out if one was issued and when it was issued and who requested it rather than the information on it?
7: Remember on the Fight the Smears web site Obama said specifically that he was a “native born” citizen. Is there any place including any paperwork he filed to run for any election or with the DNC where he stated that he was a Natural Born citizen or that he was qualified as a candidate?
8. I remembered another public statement by Okubo. It may not be helpul but I thought I would reference it: http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/PROJECTS/Obama/Evidence/Chicago%20TRibune%2010-31-08%20Birthplace%20rumors%20go%20nowhere.mht.
Thanks again Leo, Justin Riggs, TerriK and all the other Patriots that are fighting for our country. As John Paul Jones said “I (We the people) have just begun to fight!”
October 3, 2009 at 5:18 PM
Leo, don’t be so quick to conclude that Maya does not have a document. The response Ms. Okubo gave regarding the index data for Maya is the same response she gave me regarding my request for index data for the vital records referenced in the July 27, 2009 statement:
“There are no documents responsive to this question.”
When I asked her a follow up question, she replied:
“There are no documents responsive to your request for all of the index data pertaining to all of the vital records maintained by the State of Hawaii that you (Dr. Fukino) relied upon to make your July 27, 2009 statement regarding Barack Hussein Obama. Release of vital records are governed by HRS 338-18 which is available at: http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/”
[ed. yes, but Okubo did say that the public can check all of this at the Office of Health Status Monitoring. People will be double checking there, of course. I believe her on that one... she knows people are asking for Maya's index info by the droves. So, in my mind it's like 99.9999% certain there is no COLB for Maya. And if people are hoping the Obama COLB is a forgery, they are going to be upset. I don't believe that's where the money is. But getting the COLB generated from the DoH and handed over to us is a goal.]
October 3, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Theobamafile author asked to have this info sent to you via email. However, seeing as I don’t have your email …here is what Theobamafile wanted you to have.
If one of you have Donofrio’s email, would you send him the following — there’s more data on those Index Data set:
At a minimum, there should be at least the following additional data in “Index Data” set.
DateOfInsert — Date the Index Data was created in the data set
DateOfActivity — Date of birth/marriage
OperatorId — The individual that inserted or updated the Index Data
But, more importantly, there’s more data –
there’s also the DBMS Log Data — they’re “Index Data” too!
There are also data in the database management system (DBMS) logs. Those logs are archived separately, away from the Data Index files and are a true representation of every insert and update (change) ever made to that database.
Every computer installation on the planet keeps these things forever.
What everyone needs to remember is that someone could have changed that Index Data yesterday — or created it the day before that. The database logs will tell the tell and should be requested.
October 3, 2009 at 5:43 PM
MP3: Leo Donofrio on The Liberty Pole with Ken Dunbar 2009-10-02,
– is here: http://sovereign-economist.com/
Faster backup link: http://tinyurl.com/yeagdga (The link will expire in 7 days.)
2h:53m
October 3, 2009 at 7:09 PM
[...] DoH Reverses Course – Releases Index Data For President Obama, Stanley Ann and Barack, Sr; No Reco… naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-president-obama-stanley-ann-and-barack-sr-no-records-for-maya-exist – view page – cached 9PM -11 PM EST – Texas Broadcasting Network http://texasbroadcasting.net/ — From the page [...]
October 3, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Shawn at 12:56 pm: “Declaring anyone a US Citizen, NBC or otherwise IS NOT within their authority…..and the people are entitled to know the truth, aren’t they?”
As Leo indicated in an earlier response [part 1, 9/25/09 at 5:35 am], the declaration came through the AG.
So, the question is, is there an AG opinion available upon which Okubo relied, and, if there is not, the AG’s office is required to file such an AG letter, right?
October 3, 2009 at 11:15 PM
>>Leo says: I believe TerriK forwarded me something on this in that the law in Hawaii says that they have the obligation to forward all records on that person, they can’t parse on the alias. But they don’t have to issue a separate answer for each alias, so they dont have issue a statement that no records for Soetoro exist.<<<<
Yes, If Soetero is an alias they must provide records for Barack Obama II. As you mention above, there is NO EVIDENCE that he used this name as an adult, here was a perfect chance for them to say "no Records exist for Barry Soetero", and they appear to be really good at saying "no records exist" even when there were records.
[ed. okubo just said it... see update to latest post.]
October 4, 2009 at 12:55 AM
[...] However, those of you interested in gathering the rest of the index data information that we are entitled to, might find this section useful. The ‘Index Data’ that Leo Donofrio reveals at his blog may be just a portion of the data that Hawaii has: http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-presi…. [...]
[Ed. this is TerriK's new blog. Everyone should visit there, show support, book mark and repost her work. Go TerriK....]
October 4, 2009 at 10:25 AM
BIRTH INDEX
OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING
CHILD
OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
GENDER
M
My genealogist friend says:
What a joke!!!!
I cannot speak for HI but I can for several counties in WI.
The normal nature of indexes for births/deaths/marriages is to be arranged in CHRONOLOGICAL, NOT ALPHABETICAL ORDER.
Of course, this poses a problem for a researcher because you cannot just go to an index and look up the name of the child.
The older, handwritten indexes, such as those that would have probably been created in HI in the 1960s, would be organized such that the entries are listed in the order in which the office of the Register of Deeds for that county gets the birth information from the hospital/midwife, etc.
A rather cumbersome system was used in many locations that allowed a person to look for an individual certificate by using the person’s name.
Here’s how it would go:
If you know the approximate time frame in which an individual was born, you would go the the birth index book which contained birth entries during that time frame and which contained the first letter of the surname of the person. Ex: I have an idea that Barack Obama, Jr. was born in the year 1961. I find the birth index volume that covers the year 1961 and that contains surnames that start with the letter “o”.
When I view that volume, the entries are in chronological, not alphabetical order.
I look for an organizer tab that contains the letter “o” names. In back of that tab are tabs for the vowels a, e, i, o, u.
I use the FIRST VOWEL of the person’s surname, and in this case, the first vowel in the person’s surname is “o”, and look behind that tab. (Note, in obama’s case, because his surname starts with a vowel, I would look under “o” first, but I would also look under “a” vowel tab if the surname wasn’t found under “o” vowel tab.
I must then use the column on the index page that shows the DATE OF BIRTH to find the babies that were born on a given date, in this case, Aug. 4, 1961.
There may be no babies listed if the town/city is small.
There may be 20 babies listed for that date if the city is large.
The names of the babies will not be listed alphabetically for Aug. 4. They will be listed in the order in which the registrar records their births.
I have taken the time to tell you how old, handwritten records had to be organized because you will realize after reading this THAT IT IS A SOMEWHAT COMPLEX PROCESS FOR THE REGISTER OF DEEDS IN A LARGE CITY/COUNTY TO FIND AN INDIVIDUAL’S NON-COMPUTERIZED BIRTH INDEX RECORD MERELY BY KNOWING THE NAME.
In a small town where few births occur (this happened in Milwaukee Co. when it was just being populated) the records are all lumped together under the first letter of the surname. The researcher must laboriously go through all the surnames starting with a particular letter in order to find an entry. BUT, the entries are still in chronological order under the first letter of the surname.
**The purpose of the index is not only to list the name of the child born, BUT TO GIVE A TIME FRAME TO THE BIRTH EVENT.**
In light of what I have just stated, the information that you received from the DoH seems to indicate to me that index information is being withheld.
AN INDIVIDUAL’S SURNAME NEEDS TO BE KNOWN TO USE A BIRTH INDEX, AND THE TIME FRAME, NORMALLY THE EXACT DATE FOR THE BIRTH, WILL BE APPARENT ONCE THE RESEARCHER HAS WADED THROUGH THE RECORDS FROM THAT TIME PERIOD.
**The name and date are usually SIDE BY SIDE.
To send you AN IMCOMPLETE birth index listing such as the listing you received from DoH, is, in my opinion, a flagrant act of withholding information.
The birth index entry should list, at the very least, the name of the child born, and the date of birth.
Otherwise, there would be **no reason** to maintain an index. You need to have DATES.
It is possible that HI was so small and there were so few children born in the old days that the entries were kept on index cards.
If that is the case, **the date of birth would still no doubt be listed on the card.** The purpose of the index is not just to list the child’s name, but to attach the birth event to a specific date.
The DoH and it’s policies/practices/officials needs to be investigated.
October 4, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Okay,
Now it has been established that Maya Soetoro Ng does not have a Hawai’ian COLB. We presume Maya was born in Indonesea to Lolo & Stanley Ann. When Stanley Ann Dunham filed for divorce from Lolo Soetoro, she listed Maya as a US Citizen in the court filings. Does Maya, being born on Indo. soil, to a Indo. father & US mother, become a US Citizen via her mother’s blood lines?
And Hawai’i has no records of this???
[ed. exactly. hawaii has nothing at all to do with it. it's a federal statute pertaining to a person born abroad. Hawaii is not involved.]
October 5, 2009 at 12:46 PM
Re the lack of a file for Barry Soetoro. I agree with you that it is highly unlikely that there is a file for Barry Soetoro, and I see your point about: “But they don’t have to issue a separate answer for each alias, so they dont have issue a statement that no records for Soetoro exist.”
But there is a way to know for sure, which is to file a separate set of requests that only refers to Barry Soetoro, and if the reply is “there is nothing,” then you know for sure.
[ed. and another for Barry Sutoro etc. Not that the main stream media would bother doing any such thing... oh no. Can't have any real journalism going on.]
October 5, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Yes, but their situation does not, and should not affect you. The question, is are you going to do it?
October 5, 2009 at 11:27 PM
good job leo…but….they Lie all the time so please stay open minded..stay focussed…but be open…IOW…stay open!
October 12, 2009 at 9:24 AM
[...] “DoH Reverses Course – Releases Index Data for President Obama, Stanley Ann, and Barack, Sr.; N…,” by Leo Donofrio, 10/2 [...]